A Tale of Two Americas: Marina's Bicultural Experiences and Exploration of Bitcoin - 2

Tali: 00:00:00

Hi everyone, welcome to Orange Hatter.

Tali: 00:00:02

Today you're listening to part two of my conversation with Marina.

Tali: 00:00:06

... you're going person to person, it's peer to peer.

Tali: 00:00:08

And also I wanted to just, again, bring, bring it back to the fees, because I,

Tali: 00:00:12

I feel like a lot of people who are working internationally, or who are

Tali: 00:00:16

not working internationally, don't quite grasp the heavy toll the fees

Tali: 00:00:21

play on, like, for example, immigrants who are working overseas and trying

Tali: 00:00:24

to send money back to their families.

Tali: 00:00:27

And the banks doing nothing, except allowing that transaction,

Tali: 00:00:31

takes such a big chunk.

Marina: 00:00:33

Well, I can just tell you, yesterday I was speaking to my father,

Marina: 00:00:35

and he said he walked into a bank the other day, and they were like, oh,

Marina: 00:00:39

we have a new credit card for you.

Marina: 00:00:41

We have a new credit for card for you, sir.

Marina: 00:00:43

It has 70% interest.

Marina: 00:00:46

70!

Marina: 00:00:49

So it's, like, blows your mind.

Marina: 00:00:51

I mean, not even 10%, not even, like, 25 if you're really bad

Marina: 00:00:55

and you don't pay on time.

Marina: 00:00:56

70%.

Marina: 00:00:58

And that was, like, the new good card to get.

Marina: 00:01:01

So obviously it's, it's a crime practically to owe money...

Marina: 00:01:06

and to be, I mean, being in debt here is slavery almost if you cannot

Marina: 00:01:10

pay on time, if something happens.

Marina: 00:01:12

It really is horrible.

Marina: 00:01:14

So that's why I also think the system has to change and we have to

Marina: 00:01:18

have different options, you know?

Tali: 00:01:20

Yeah, for sure.

Tali: 00:01:21

Okay, so you were, you were brought into Bitcoin in 2017, and it sounds

Tali: 00:01:27

like based on our previous conversation, that you actually entered this space

Tali: 00:01:31

with not only Bitcoin but also other cryptocurrencies, but current...

Tali: 00:01:35

but since you've learned more about Bitcoin, you've now completely

Tali: 00:01:39

dedicated yourself to Bitcoin.

Tali: 00:01:41

Can you talk a little bit about, just, the comparison between Bitcoin

Tali: 00:01:44

and the other cryptocurrencies?

Marina: 00:01:46

Well, I, I mean, I don't think that the world is gonna be

Marina: 00:01:48

one thing, everything for everyone.

Marina: 00:01:51

It, it, I think, you know, you have to respect people's needs and choice.

Marina: 00:01:55

Personally, I believe in Bitcoin.

Marina: 00:01:58

I believe in what it offers, and I also believe that it will be

Marina: 00:02:02

the global money, if you will.

Marina: 00:02:05

And so because of those factors, I've made, made my decision to focus

Marina: 00:02:11

on that technology, because it's the one that has been least hack...

Marina: 00:02:14

least problems, least issues.

Marina: 00:02:17

And for that, those reasons alone, I do think that it, it is the most stable and

Marina: 00:02:23

the most trustworthy option out there.

Marina: 00:02:25

And that's why I think I wanna dedicate myself to that, to that ecosystem and

Marina: 00:02:30

to ensure that it continues to stay stable, it continues to stay strong.

Marina: 00:02:35

And so my focus has been in, you know, I'm not a developer, but my, my work now

Marina: 00:02:41

is about growing the developer ecosystem.

Marina: 00:02:44

Because I love to, like, what I used to do was work with CEOs.

Marina: 00:02:48

So for me, finding talent, thinking about talent, understanding what it means

Marina: 00:02:53

to find people who are really good at what they do, that was my job, to find

Marina: 00:02:58

the next generation of CEOs and find who can change the world, if you will.

Marina: 00:03:03

That's what I wanted to do here, because developers are such an important part of

Marina: 00:03:07

the Bitcoin ecosystem, and even if I may not be technical, I'm very good at finding

Marina: 00:03:13

talent that is technical, if you will.

Marina: 00:03:16

And that's what I've been dedicating myself to.

Tali: 00:03:18

Yeah, that's so important.

Tali: 00:03:20

And I wanna just bring it back one more time, just, about the other

Tali: 00:03:24

cryptocurrencies, because I know that that's a major question that a

Tali: 00:03:28

lot of women out there who don't...

Tali: 00:03:30

who are new to this space would ask, which is why Bitcoin?

Tali: 00:03:34

Why not Ethereum?

Tali: 00:03:35

Why not other currencies?

Tali: 00:03:37

But you mentioned that in the South American countries that you work

Tali: 00:03:40

with, you really need more than one.

Tali: 00:03:42

You need more options than one, because they have issues with their

Tali: 00:03:47

fiat currency that's more urgent.

Tali: 00:03:49

So can you talk a little bit about that?

Marina: 00:03:51

Sure.

Marina: 00:03:51

I mean, I, I can, so I'll touch two angles.

Marina: 00:03:55

So I interviewed 63 women from 32 countries to create this report, because

Marina: 00:04:00

there was previous reports about how women use Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies,

Marina: 00:04:05

but it really was about US and UK.

Marina: 00:04:08

I mean, it was 4,000 people interviewed, but none of them

Marina: 00:04:10

were from the global south...

Marina: 00:04:12

or some kind of tried, but, but because I grew up abroad, even though I'm

Marina: 00:04:16

American, I really think that the story is much broader and much more complex.

Marina: 00:04:21

And so, yes, for example, and I'll give you just the basics of, of the case

Marina: 00:04:25

of Argentina, which all of you have known, they're in the news all the time,

Marina: 00:04:29

because they have defaults all the time.

Marina: 00:04:32

And I, I remember speaking with a girl who works for a US company, but

Marina: 00:04:36

she gets paid in pesos in Argentina.

Marina: 00:04:39

And within six months, her money has devalued to the half of it.

Marina: 00:04:43

So one of the options she had was to exchange it for cryptocurrencies,

Marina: 00:04:48

whether it's Bitcoin or something else.

Marina: 00:04:50

But she also chose to, okay, save half, and then the other half, she would use

Marina: 00:04:56

stable coins, because that way her money could last for the rest of the month.

Marina: 00:05:01

And then she would exchange it for pesos once she had to pay more bills, right?

Marina: 00:05:06

Because her life was still pesos, her life was still fiat, and she

Marina: 00:05:10

needed to have fiat, but she just didn't want it to lose value, half

Marina: 00:05:14

of its value within six months.

Marina: 00:05:16

And even though she was paid by a international company, they were paying

Marina: 00:05:20

her in the local currency, and it really, really made it very difficult

Marina: 00:05:24

for her to make her money stretch, even if she had such a privileged

Marina: 00:05:29

position to work for a US company.

Marina: 00:05:31

And the other case, which was an interesting part of the report, I spoke

Marina: 00:05:36

with somebody who was pretty high up.

Marina: 00:05:38

He used to run, like, the, the bank regulation system in, in a country.

Marina: 00:05:42

And he told me, this is not money, Marina.

Marina: 00:05:44

Bitcoin is not money.

Marina: 00:05:45

And I, and I go, wait a minute.

Marina: 00:05:46

And what we proved was that 80% of the women that we interviewed preferred to

Marina: 00:05:52

get paid in cryptocurrencies than not.

Marina: 00:05:55

They preferred it over fiat, which definitely tells you, yes, it is money.

Marina: 00:05:59

And it was a big myth that we debunked.

Marina: 00:06:02

So much so that he opened up doors for me to talk to people at the IMF and the

Marina: 00:06:06

World Bank and all these other places, where he kind of realized, oh shoot,

Marina: 00:06:10

maybe, maybe I'm wrong about this.

Marina: 00:06:12

So I think that was very interesting that, that like me, like when my

Marina: 00:06:16

colleague chose to get paid in fiat and I chose to get paid in

Marina: 00:06:20

Bitcoin, you know, I was completely convinced, I believed in it, and I

Marina: 00:06:25

made a choice that made sense for me.

Marina: 00:06:27

Right?

Marina: 00:06:28

And I think that that's, uh, something that, that we're proving little by little.

Marina: 00:06:32

I don't, I don't think it's, like, the norm, obviously, we're still, we're still

Marina: 00:06:36

trailblazers in that sense, if you will.

Marina: 00:06:38

And you, you can call it risk, but this girl that was...

Marina: 00:06:42

that, I was talking to another girl in Argentina.

Marina: 00:06:44

She says, Marina, I was working two jobs.

Marina: 00:06:48

I couldn't barely buy a, a slice of pizza.

Marina: 00:06:52

I was living very precariously in my country.

Marina: 00:06:56

You know?

Marina: 00:06:56

And, and I'm studying law, but I can't afford the books.

Marina: 00:06:59

Like, my, my law degree is free.

Marina: 00:07:01

I can, my...

Marina: 00:07:02

they pay, they pay for me to, to go to my...

Marina: 00:07:05

to, to my law degree.

Marina: 00:07:07

But I can't pay for the bus or the books to study law.

Marina: 00:07:12

So when you tell me that Bitcoin and, and, and all these options that I have are

Marina: 00:07:17

dangerous for me, I mean, shut up dude.

Marina: 00:07:19

Like, literally shut up.

Marina: 00:07:21

Uh, my life was precarious.

Marina: 00:07:23

Bitcoin is not precarious.

Marina: 00:07:25

I mean, I at least know the risk.

Marina: 00:07:26

I know I have to sometimes wait certain times when the price is too

Marina: 00:07:30

low and, and maybe that's when I buy Bitcoin instead of panicking, right?

Marina: 00:07:35

Because we all have that moment where you buy it...

Marina: 00:07:37

I remember buying a hundred dollars of Bitcoin in 2017 or something, and

Marina: 00:07:41

then selling it immediately, like, when it came from 7K to 10K, I, I sold it.

Marina: 00:07:46

I was, like, panic.

Marina: 00:07:47

And, and then, you know, slowly you start learning.

Marina: 00:07:50

Okay, it sometimes goes up, it sometimes goes down.

Marina: 00:07:53

What is your horizon?

Marina: 00:07:54

How long do you want to, to keep it?

Marina: 00:07:57

You, you start learning, but only until you download a wallet and, and kind of

Marina: 00:08:02

understand it and follow the cycles...

Marina: 00:08:04

you can understand what they mean by diamond hands and what they

Marina: 00:08:08

mean by hodling, which is, uh, misspelling of hold, right, that

Marina: 00:08:13

stayed as part of the culture.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:15

it is money, and B: don't tell me, you

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:20

know, Bitcoin is precarious, because my life was precarious already.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:24

Like, this is actually not a risk.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:26

The risk is that my money will devalue within six months, and I'll have it,

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:30

and I will have no way to pay my bills.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:33

So yes, I can wait it out.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:34

I can, in that case, use stable coins to to save, like, as if

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:39

you were saving in dollars.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:40

Right?

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:41

And not have the burden of, of the risk of your country defaulting again,

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:46

and not being able to access your bank account, like in Lebanon, right?

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:49

These, these things are happening all over the world.

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:52

And people are smarter and understand that they cannot trust

those are the reasons, like A: 00:08:55

the government sometimes, right?

Tali: 00:08:58

Yeah, for sure.

Tali: 00:08:59

And that the value, which I, we call it value, but really it's

Tali: 00:09:03

just an exchange rate, when it goes from, like, the high of Bitcoin was

Tali: 00:09:07

68,000 and then it dropped to 16.

Tali: 00:09:11

And our families who knew that we had invested in Bitcoin said, oh

Tali: 00:09:15

my gosh, what are you gonna do?

Tali: 00:09:16

And I said, well, it's on sale.

Tali: 00:09:18

I'm gonna tell my kids go buy it.

Tali: 00:09:21

If you understand what it stands for, then the exchange rate is less significant.

Marina: 00:09:26

Well, I do think it takes time to get to that point, right?

Marina: 00:09:29

Like, I do remember panicking, and I do remember, like, when it was low, I

Marina: 00:09:33

didn't have money to buy more, right?

Marina: 00:09:35

So, so sometimes it's not, like, so easy as we make it out to be.

Marina: 00:09:40

But I do agree that if you have a conviction, and if you've been

Marina: 00:09:43

reading, understanding, following, you know why, you know?...

Marina: 00:09:48

and, and in fact, that's something that's really interesting...

Marina: 00:09:51

that I realized that...

Marina: 00:09:52

I was speaking to a lady, an older lady the other day that had never

Marina: 00:09:55

heard about Bitcoin, and she didn't know that there was a limit...

Marina: 00:09:59

that there wasn't, that there was a certain amount of Bitcoin that was

Marina: 00:10:01

gonna be printed, if you will, as they say in the fiat world, and then

Marina: 00:10:06

it would stop being available, right?

Marina: 00:10:08

So become scarce with time.

Marina: 00:10:11

And she did not realize that.

Marina: 00:10:13

She thought you could just keep on printing Bitcoin, and Bitcoin was always

Marina: 00:10:16

gonna be, like, being, you know, made or minted or whatever you wanna call it...

Marina: 00:10:20

mined, in our case, we call it mined.

Marina: 00:10:23

And so she then realized how it was anti-inflationary and with time, how

Marina: 00:10:28

it would become more and more valuable.

Tali: 00:10:30

Thanks for joining us today and learning with us today.

Tali: 00:10:34

If the discussion with our guest resonated with you, and you would

Tali: 00:10:37

like to dive deeper into the world of Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Tali: 00:10:41

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

Tali: 00:10:43

The meetup link is in the show notes.

Tali: 00:10:45

Also, if there are women in your life whom you think will both enjoy and

Tali: 00:10:50

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin, please share Orange Hatter with them.