From 2017 Hearsay to Pandemic Study: Jules on Bitcoin - Part 2

Tali: 00:00:00

Hi everybody.

Tali: 00:00:01

Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Today you're listening to part two of my conversation with Jules.

Tali: 00:00:06

You mentioned earlier that you did a Bitcoin camp for

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your daughter and her friends.

Tali: 00:00:13

Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it went?

Jules: 00:00:16

Yeah.

Jules: 00:00:17

I was very encouraged by your story of the home camp homeschooling.

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This summer, I said, we're not gonna do any camps.

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We'll just do stuff at home and you know, we'll spend time together and

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teach, I'll teach you about Bitcoin.

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And a couple of her friends also wanted to do it.

Jules: 00:00:37

So yeah, it was actually really, it was really fun.

Jules: 00:00:40

Before I talked about Bitcoin, I talked about money.

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What is money?

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What do you think about money?

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And kind of went through, you know, different exercises of, like, doing

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bartering and how inefficient that is.

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And then how did money evolve?

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And then, um, just talked about kind of going through the history of, like,

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using shells as money and then coin and then how that got debased and how it

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was inconvenient and it went to IOU, like paper being traded for gold or

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whatever, gold or silver, whatever it was.

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And then that went into being used as currency.

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And then talked about the dollar and how it used to be backed by

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gold, but now it suddenly wasn't.

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And I went through all that and went through the whole, what did the

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dollar cost, or what did dollar...

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what was the purchasing power of the dollar back in 1914 from

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the start of the reserve to now.

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And they were pretty shocked by that.

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Talked about the, uh, the fractional reserve banking and

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did some exercises around that.

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And, and they really, they were pretty engaged.

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And the thing that, I think that, really like struck them was how the

Jules: 00:02:01

system is getting the poor, poorer...

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and the rich richer.

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And I think they, they could kind of see sense that.

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And so now they kind of see, okay, because of inflation and all this money creation,

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you know, people that can't afford to have assets, they just have to work

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harder and harder to kind of keep up.

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Whereas the people that can afford assets, you know, they, they're, they're

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winning and they're getting richer.

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So I think that really struck them as something that's not fair.

Jules: 00:02:31

Yeah, so I, I kind of saw, like, the light bulb go off with that.

Jules: 00:02:36

And then we talked about Bitcoin, and then we talked about, well, this is, this is

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one of the reasons Bitcoin was created...

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was to have a hard commodity that's not manipulated, has a hard cap, and

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also to have transactions without needing banks or any intermediaries.

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And then we started playing your, the HODL UP game.

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And one of the things we talked about was, um, how to approach, how to

Jules: 00:03:00

approach complicated things, which is like, you gotta see the big picture.

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There was a book that I had just read and it, she laid it up pretty clearly.

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It's called "Bitcoin Clarity" by Kiara Bickers.

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I don't know if you've read that.

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So, she talks about systematic thinking and how you have to kind of

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answer the question "why" first...

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and then you get into concepts and then, like, the technical details.

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I think people get overwhelmed by Bitcoin because it's so technical.

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And then once you focus on one thing, it's like, you know, you just kind of get lost.

Jules: 00:03:35

So, I mean, I know that's happened to me where I just felt like, I'm not

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technical, I don't know how to do this.

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But I, I think when I got into it, it, I did get into it

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because of like the big "why".

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Like, I need a store of value, I need something that's not manipulated.

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And so that kinda helped me.

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I think approaching it this way with the kids really helped.

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Like why, why was Bitcoin created?

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And then, um, and then we kind of said, okay, and then there's

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like all these technical things that you should understand at some

Jules: 00:04:01

point if you wanna like, really trust it and know why it works.

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But, um, so I thought that was like a good way to kind of talk...

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to play the game...

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was here's a, you know, we talked about the big "why" for like a week.

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We talked about money and banks and, and then, and then at the end of the

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week we played the game and said, okay, these are all the different

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things that help Bitcoin work.

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And it was like just a fun way to, you know, introduce different

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topics and they really got into it, and they got really competitive.

Jules: 00:04:33

Of course, I won.

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I remain the Bitcoin queen.

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But, um, um, they got really competitive and, and then at the end of the game

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we said, I said, you know, what do you, what do you guys want to talk about next?

Jules: 00:04:46

We could talk about like something more technical, which is hard, but,

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you know, if you take it piece by piece, it might not be so hard.

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So they actually wanted to talk about mining.

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So we talked about that the next week.

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So, yeah, so I think...

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so we kind of had to put it on pause because some of the girls were going on

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vacation and it was just getting, you know, they had some other stuff going on.

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So I think next time we'll kind of approach it the same way as...

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what, what topic do you wanna talk about next?

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One of the girls kind of mentioned she wants to learn about hashing.

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So, um, yeah, so I think we could talk about that next, but yeah, it

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was, it was actually really fun.

Jules: 00:05:19

I think the girls really enjoyed it.

Tali: 00:05:22

Good, good.

Tali: 00:05:22

So, how old are these girls?

Jules: 00:05:24

They're ,12.

Tali: 00:05:26

12.

Tali: 00:05:26

Okay.

Tali: 00:05:27

And how long was each session each day?

Jules: 00:05:31

So, um, the Bitcoin part was two hours.

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And then, uh, one of the girl's mom was a teacher, so she wanted to do,

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like, a reading and writing curriculum.

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So she did that for like two hours.

Jules: 00:05:44

So the Bitcoin part was only two hours.

Tali: 00:05:47

Okay.

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I'm just asking because for someone who's listening to it who wants to create

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something similar, I'm just trying to give her, like, a general framework.

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So two hours at a time, discussion/activities.

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And how long did it go for?

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Like how many days?

Jules: 00:06:06

It went for about a week and a half.

Jules: 00:06:09

So we just finished yesterday.

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And then, um, so we're gonna put on pause for now, but um, yeah, I think we might

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resume when things settle down a bit.

Tali: 00:06:21

So, I'm actually surprised that kids that age are interested

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enough to want to dig deeper.

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So I wanna just try to figure out what you did to keep their interest, because

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money as a topic is not very interesting to most kids who are 12 years old.

Tali: 00:06:42

How did you keep their attention?

Jules: 00:06:44

I there's a, um, program online called Mi Primer Bitcoin.

Jules: 00:06:50

I should, I should thank them.

Jules: 00:06:53

Um, they're El Salvador.

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It's, but it's a very long, 10 week course, so I just took what I thought

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might be interesting and simple.

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And they have a lot of exercises and videos on there, so I

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kind of pulled from that.

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Um, and they really enjoy the videos.

Jules: 00:07:12

The videos were good and the exercises, I think, kind of make things relevant.

Jules: 00:07:18

And I think, I mean, I think because they don't talk about this stuff...

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like, what is money?

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And it's a huge part of their lives.

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I mean, they're now like going shopping and stuff and, um, they don't

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learn about this stuff at school.

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So they were pretty interested.

Tali: 00:07:34

So you, it sounds like you've been in the Bitcoin space for

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a few years now, poking around.

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What have you noticed in this space when it comes to women?

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Because obviously this podcast was created to reach more women.

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What have you noticed?

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What do you think we can do as women Bitcoin to reach more

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women who are not Bitcoiners yet?

Jules: 00:07:56

Yeah.

Jules: 00:07:56

I'm so glad you did this podcast because it's, I think it's so important.

Jules: 00:08:00

So I, I do the local meetups, uh, around my house.

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And, um, yeah, there's always, I mean, last, last meetup, there was no...

Jules: 00:08:12

one other woman.

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And, um, usually it's like one or two other women and it's always

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somebody's, like, girlfriend or wife.

Jules: 00:08:20

I don't know what it is.

Jules: 00:08:21

I mean, I, I, you know, I talk about Bitcoin all the time.

Jules: 00:08:23

I have a big group of friends...

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and I mean, there's a few that kind of get interested and then it's, like, done.

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And, you know, I always encourage them to come to these meetups and

Jules: 00:08:34

like, maybe one or two have come.

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And I don't know what it is.

Jules: 00:08:39

Like I, I, I think maybe it's, um, most of my friends are married.

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Maybe they don't feel like they have the...

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like they, they kind of leave it to their husband to make the money decisions...

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which, which I, you know, is totally valid.

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Like, when I was married, I totally let my husband do all the, you know,

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money investment decisions and...

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So maybe they feel like they don't, they don't feel like

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they have that responsibility or want that responsibility.

Jules: 00:09:09

You know, because I'm, I'm single, like, I had to make those decisions and had

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to make decisions of how to invest.

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And maybe that's why it's different for me versus my friends.

Jules: 00:09:19

I don't know.

Jules: 00:09:21

I, but I think it shouldn't be.

Jules: 00:09:23

Um, I have a really, I have, like, one of my best friends is a Bitcoiner woman.

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She's also single.

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So, you know, we're talking about it, we're like, I don't know why

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more women are not in Bitcoin.

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But you know, we're speculating, maybe it's because they feel like they don't...

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they can't convince their husband so...

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or they don't feel like that's their realm of decision making?

Jules: 00:09:45

I don't know.

Tali: 00:09:47

I have been asking myself that same question.

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I feel...

Tali: 00:09:51

okay, so this is my, my very unresearched conclusion, just based on my observations.

Tali: 00:09:59

I feel like, like what you said, if they're married, mostly, you

Tali: 00:10:05

know, when you have a household, you kind of divide and conquer, right?

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Because you've got so many things to take care of.

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And men take on the responsibility for finances, and then women take on the

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responsibility for raising their kids and keeping house and things like that.

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And so I think that's one reason.

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Another reason, I'm guessing, is I feel like so many stars have to

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align for people, at least in our country, in the United States,

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to feel the need to explore it.

Tali: 00:10:36

Um, you come from a background where you became skeptical of the value

Tali: 00:10:40

of all the work that you've put in.

Tali: 00:10:43

Scott and I come from the background of, we've gone through the whole corporate

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route and we have been very disillusioned by the promise that we, we envisioned

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when we went to business school.

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So we've been disillusioned, and I feel like in some ways

Tali: 00:10:56

you've been disillusioned.

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So, if you've been disillusioned by the traditional system, you start

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asking questions, and inevitably you're going to find Bitcoin,

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because it is there for all to see.

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It's limited supply, you have privacy, you have self custody, self re...

Tali: 00:11:12

self sovereignty.

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Like you said, you're responsible for yourself.

Tali: 00:11:16

You find it, if you're looking for it.

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But if you are...

Tali: 00:11:19

if you haven't gone through that process of becoming disillusioned...

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if everything has worked out for you, you've gone to law school and you've

Tali: 00:11:27

really enjoyed your law practice, and you've invested in real estate and

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that's doing well, then there's almost no reason for you to look for anything else.

Tali: 00:11:35

And when we talked to, when Scott and I talked to women who are overseas,

Tali: 00:11:41

they have more, there are more of them who had been disillusioned by

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the system that they're living in.

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Whether it's through hyperinflation or just corruption in the government.

Tali: 00:11:53

They have been looking for something else, and so they find Bitcoin.

Tali: 00:11:57

So there are more people overseas finding Bitcoin, I think, because

Tali: 00:12:00

they've been disillusioned by their, their own experience.

Tali: 00:12:04

So for us to reach women here...

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I mean, this is obviously my way of sharing stories.

Tali: 00:12:11

I feel like a lot of women are on the fence because they're curious,

Tali: 00:12:15

but they, you know, like...

Tali: 00:12:16

they say, if, if you are in a difficult situation, and you know, zero is

Tali: 00:12:21

really comfortable and 10 is so bad that you have to make a change...

Tali: 00:12:24

if you're at an eight or nine, you're still not gonna change.

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So in my mind, the people who are sitting on the fence, they might be

Tali: 00:12:31

experiencing a seven, eight, or nine, but I'm hoping our discussion will help

Tali: 00:12:36

them reach a 10, and then they'll hop off the fence and start asking questions.

Tali: 00:12:39

Because once you start asking questions, the whole world opens up to you, right?

Tali: 00:12:44

We are all, every Bitcoin in the Bitcoin space is just more than happy and waiting

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to share the good news with people.

Tali: 00:12:51

But most of the times when we say, "Hey, can I tell you about Bitcoin?"

Tali: 00:12:54

they put up their hand and go, "no thanks", "I'm good", youknow, "it's just a

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scam", or "I've already missed the boat".

Tali: 00:12:59

I hear that a lot.

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"I've already missed the boat.

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It's too late.

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I better go look for another coin that's just starting up that costs 1 cent,

Tali: 00:13:07

and then I'll get rich with that."

Tali: 00:13:09

You know, kind of thing.

Tali: 00:13:10

So that's sort of the way that I have experienced talking to people

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who are what I call pre-coiners.

Tali: 00:13:17

Um, so yeah, that's, that's my 2 cents worth of analysis.

Tali: 00:13:23

Amateur analysis.

Jules: 00:13:25

Yeah.

Jules: 00:13:26

Yeah.

Jules: 00:13:26

That, that's true.

Jules: 00:13:28

I mean, I think most people will make...

Jules: 00:13:30

I mean, I'm, I think, for me, for my group of friends, like they're very comfortable.

Jules: 00:13:35

And the, the system has worked for them.

Jules: 00:13:38

So, it's...

Jules: 00:13:39

why try something different or why look elsewhere?

Jules: 00:13:44

So maybe that's, yeah.

Jules: 00:13:45

So I agree.

Jules: 00:13:45

So, um, maybe that's one aspect.

Tali: 00:13:48

Yeah, exactly.

Tali: 00:13:49

Or they're just so busy with trying to survive in the system.

Tali: 00:13:54

You know, they're working two jobs, one to earn and one to keep what they

Tali: 00:13:57

earn, that they don't have any more bandwidth to explore an alternative.

Tali: 00:14:02

So yeah, we, if we are just ready to help them, they will come find us.

Tali: 00:14:07

And this is sort of our broadcast to people out there.

Tali: 00:14:10

If you're ready and when you're ready, this is where we are, kind of thing.

Tali: 00:14:15

Thank you for joining us today.

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We will continue this conversation tomorrow.

Tali: 00:14:19

Be sure to come back and hear the rest.