From Drop Shipping to Bitcoin Education: Sanjna's Entrepreneurial Shift - Part 2

Tali: 00:00:00

Hi everybody, welcome to Orange Hatter.

Tali: 00:00:02

Today is part two of my conversation with Sanjana.

Sanjna: 00:00:06

So I think there's a lot more countries in El...

Sanjna: 00:00:08

in, uh, Latin America that wanna follow.

Sanjna: 00:00:10

It's still very new, of course, to see all the effects, but whatever we've seen

Sanjna: 00:00:15

so far has just been completely positive.

Sanjna: 00:00:17

And maybe we can't give a hundred percent credit to Bitcoin,

Sanjna: 00:00:20

but we can give 80% here.

Sanjna: 00:00:21

That's the only big change that's happened, right, in the past four years.

Sanjna: 00:00:25

Yeah, so I would say, I would say El Salvador is a great example.

Sanjna: 00:00:29

I would say Nigeria is another good example, as well.

Sanjna: 00:00:31

There was a time where there were a lot of protests going on, and because

Sanjna: 00:00:35

of that, governments decided to freeze all the protestors' bank accounts.

Sanjna: 00:00:39

And because of this, citizens started preserving their wealth in Bitcoin,

Sanjna: 00:00:44

and they started realizing that, okay, the government's not gonna help us, and

Sanjna: 00:00:47

this is just always gonna be a problem.

Sanjna: 00:00:48

So there, so that, that's why actually we get a lot of our users from

Sanjna: 00:00:52

Nigeria and a large po uh, population of Nigeria has moved to Bitcoin.

Sanjna: 00:00:56

And again, positive impacts that you see...

Sanjna: 00:00:58

it's all, it is still very new to, you know, come to straight conclusions.

Sanjna: 00:01:02

But yeah, China, Nigeria, Philippines, these are, these are

Sanjna: 00:01:05

all countries that are facing a lot of restrictions from the government.

Sanjna: 00:01:08

So they are gonna, they are gonna protest in ways where Bitcoin is involved.

Sanjna: 00:01:12

It's, it's just, It's really an empowerment tool for human rights.

Tali: 00:01:16

Yeah, I, those are all like really wonderful examples.

Tali: 00:01:20

If you don't mind, I'm gonna ask you a personal question.

Tali: 00:01:23

There's always a reason why, why a native would choose to move

Tali: 00:01:27

to a different country, right?

Tali: 00:01:29

So, I'm an immigrant.

Tali: 00:01:30

I'm, I'm in the U.S.

Tali: 00:01:31

My family story is...

Tali: 00:01:34

more has to do with World War II, from my dad's side, which is what brought us here.

Tali: 00:01:38

But for you and your family, what brought you guys out of India to Europe,

Tali: 00:01:43

and what brought your husband's family out of India to the United States?

Sanjna: 00:01:48

So, so my husband is also from India, and his parents

Sanjna: 00:01:50

moved to the United States, and then my husband moved to Belgium.

Sanjna: 00:01:54

So he's just been moving around a lot.

Sanjna: 00:01:56

But yeah, basically to answer your question, it was just

Sanjna: 00:01:59

business opportunities.

Sanjna: 00:02:01

Like, there was, it wasn't...

Sanjna: 00:02:03

I mean, my parents lived in a big city in India, so the situation wasn't

Sanjna: 00:02:08

like, okay, we need to, we need to flee from this part of the, the country.

Sanjna: 00:02:12

It's just, you know, not safe or there's a lot of issues...

Sanjna: 00:02:15

'Cause I know that happens a lot around the world.

Sanjna: 00:02:16

It was just about, it was a dream, where you just thought that, okay, the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:02:20

and Europe has luxury, it has a lot of opportunities.

Sanjna: 00:02:24

You're, you're gonna make money in, in dollars and euros and you can, you know,

Sanjna: 00:02:27

send this money back to your family.

Sanjna: 00:02:29

So I think at that point, a lot of it was just a dream.

Sanjna: 00:02:32

And it's very difficult 'cause I've seen my parents live here and spend the past

Sanjna: 00:02:37

30 years here and, okay, yeah, it has a lot of luxury, it's great, but it's...

Sanjna: 00:02:41

At the end of it, you realize that you're, the grass is always greener on

Sanjna: 00:02:44

the other side, and you're giving up a lot, because the rest of my extended

Sanjna: 00:02:46

family all lives in India, right?

Sanjna: 00:02:48

So it's still about, I've given up on living with all my siblings and

Sanjna: 00:02:51

my parents to move to this country for a better future, for an education

Sanjna: 00:02:54

for my children, for, for them to get exposure and, and all of that.

Sanjna: 00:02:58

But now when you look at it, India is one of the fastest growing

Sanjna: 00:03:01

economies in the world, and people are actually moving back to India.

Sanjna: 00:03:04

People are starting businesses there.

Sanjna: 00:03:06

So it's definitely the money factor that, that people get attracted to and they're

Sanjna: 00:03:11

like, okay, if I feel like I can build a better future there, give my family

Sanjna: 00:03:15

more, then that's what I'm going to do.

Sanjna: 00:03:16

That, that, that just seems to be a priority for a lot of people.

Sanjna: 00:03:19

And I think that's what they thought when they moved 30, 35 years ago.

Sanjna: 00:03:24

And, and, and that's the way I think a lot of us are just built.

Sanjna: 00:03:27

Like today, we're hustling, we're working.

Sanjna: 00:03:29

If we think there's better opportunities in another country, we'll move, you know.

Sanjna: 00:03:33

If, if it's if, if it...

Sanjna: 00:03:35

of course, if it has to do with not giving up too much on your lifestyle and the

Sanjna: 00:03:38

way you've already been brought up...

Sanjna: 00:03:40

but I think the first thing you think about is where can I give

Sanjna: 00:03:43

my kids the best future as well?

Sanjna: 00:03:44

And I'll move there.

Sanjna: 00:03:46

I don't know where that is tomorrow, but that, that was the U.S., and

Sanjna: 00:03:49

that was Europe 30 years ago.

Sanjna: 00:03:51

So, that's what was just going on in their mind, I think.

Sanjna: 00:03:55

Yeah.

Tali: 00:03:56

Yeah.

Tali: 00:03:56

I think that's probably why 90% of the people who immigrate, that's probably why

Tali: 00:04:03

they immigrate, is because they think that there are better opportunities elsewhere.

Tali: 00:04:08

So I'm...

Tali: 00:04:08

I wanna just kind of circle back and talk again about why they would think that

Tali: 00:04:12

there's better opportunities out there...

Tali: 00:04:15

you know, to choose to leave their families and friends

Tali: 00:04:17

and everything that they know.

Tali: 00:04:19

Like, for my mom leaving her, her understanding of the world

Tali: 00:04:23

and coming to a foreign place, you know, it's very difficult and

Tali: 00:04:26

it's not just a language barrier.

Tali: 00:04:28

You have a lot of cultural differences and it's a huge, huge, huge sacrifice

Tali: 00:04:33

to move from country to country.

Tali: 00:04:35

Why do people do that?

Tali: 00:04:36

For money?

Tali: 00:04:37

Yes, but why, why wouldn't they think that they have the same

Tali: 00:04:40

opportunity where they are?

Sanjna: 00:04:42

Yeah, that's.

Sanjna: 00:04:44

I think that's a really, really good question.

Sanjna: 00:04:46

I think that does come down to the fact that India...

Sanjna: 00:04:51

okay, India is very different from what it was 30 years ago.

Sanjna: 00:04:53

It is still a developing country.

Sanjna: 00:04:55

It is one of the fastest growing economies now, but at that

Sanjna: 00:04:58

time, there was no exposure...

Sanjna: 00:05:00

is is what I feel.

Sanjna: 00:05:01

I think I, I...

Sanjna: 00:05:02

there's also this weird thing with Indians where they, you know, they

Sanjna: 00:05:05

wanna be exposed to the whole world.

Sanjna: 00:05:07

They get this very, they get very attracted to, like, the Western lifestyle.

Sanjna: 00:05:12

I don't know if this is in, in all Asian countries, but it is a very Indian thing.

Sanjna: 00:05:16

And Indians also kind of like being around their community.

Sanjna: 00:05:19

So it, like, Belgium, Antwerp, where I live is a very different situation

Sanjna: 00:05:24

'cause there's a lot of Indians here.

Sanjna: 00:05:26

It's like they kind of all migrated together, and they created this

Sanjna: 00:05:29

own, their own community over here.

Sanjna: 00:05:31

Which is kind of nice, so I feel like they're, they're, they didn't miss

Sanjna: 00:05:34

out on that whole, you know, we, we miss our people aspect or something.

Sanjna: 00:05:39

But yeah, I think, I think there was always this attraction that, and even

Sanjna: 00:05:43

today, if you speak to a lot of Indians in the smaller cities in India, they're

Sanjna: 00:05:47

like, oh, he studies in America.

Sanjna: 00:05:48

Or, oh, she's, she has a job in America.

Sanjna: 00:05:50

Like, it just, it still sounds so great in your head, you know.

Sanjna: 00:05:54

And in, in India, like, if you are a doctor, you're a professional.

Sanjna: 00:05:58

It's like the biggest deal.

Sanjna: 00:05:59

It's, it's now people are going into different fields and there's so much

Sanjna: 00:06:03

creativity there, but like back in the day, it's like, okay, if he went there

Sanjna: 00:06:06

and he did his undergrad there, he studied there, he became a doctor there...

Sanjna: 00:06:10

it's like it's reputation, and Indians really believe in this stuff as well.

Sanjna: 00:06:13

It's like it's a big deal.

Sanjna: 00:06:15

It's more about the name, whether you've achieved that or not, but

Sanjna: 00:06:18

it's, it's just like there is a sense of community and bragging and where

Sanjna: 00:06:22

you're like, okay, like, yeah, they've, they've studied abroad, they've

Sanjna: 00:06:25

worked, they've lived abroad, you know.

Sanjna: 00:06:27

And now they come, they come back twice a year and, like, they're

Sanjna: 00:06:30

sending money to their families.

Sanjna: 00:06:31

And yeah, when you're earning in dollars and you're sending back money, you know,

Sanjna: 00:06:35

to your families in India, it is a lot more money, but it comes with sacrifice,

Sanjna: 00:06:39

and it comes with a lot of negatives I think, that, that people don't see.

Sanjna: 00:06:43

But yeah, I, I, I...

Sanjna: 00:06:44

I think it's two aspects.

Sanjna: 00:06:46

I think it's just the dream of living a Western life and it's, it's that, okay,

Sanjna: 00:06:49

there's so many issues in our own country when it comes to corruption and government

Sanjna: 00:06:53

and politics, and you just think the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:06:55

Or Europe will be so much easier, but that's just not the reality of it, sadly.

Tali: 00:07:00

Yeah.

Tali: 00:07:00

Let's talk about that more.

Tali: 00:07:02

So the grass is greener on the other side, and people outside the Western nations

Tali: 00:07:08

think that it must be so much easier here.

Tali: 00:07:10

And yet we literally started this segment talking about why you came into

Tali: 00:07:15

the Bitcoin space in the first place.

Tali: 00:07:16

And it was because of the Canadian trucker strike, in the news, right?

Tali: 00:07:21

So would you like to talk a little bit more about, about expectation

Tali: 00:07:25

versus reality, especially when it comes to the, the monetary system and

Tali: 00:07:29

how did it affects society in Europe?

Tali: 00:07:33

And then also in India?

Sanjna: 00:07:36

So I think let's talk about the U.S., just 'cause they're the

Sanjna: 00:07:38

most powerful country right now.

Sanjna: 00:07:40

And, you know, countries follow what the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:07:43

is doing.

Sanjna: 00:07:43

Uh, just, like, in terms of policies, the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:07:48

Dollar being the reserve currency, all of that, right?

Sanjna: 00:07:51

So you go to America, you think that U.S.

Sanjna: 00:07:54

Dollar is the strongest currency, and then the more, and then the

Sanjna: 00:07:57

deeper you get into the news and the finance of it and all of that, you

Sanjna: 00:08:01

realize that it's just printing money.

Sanjna: 00:08:03

It's just...

Sanjna: 00:08:04

that is such a big issue, right?

Sanjna: 00:08:07

Like, it's, you would think that...

Sanjna: 00:08:09

why is printing money such a big deal?

Sanjna: 00:08:12

Why is it so bad?

Sanjna: 00:08:13

And I actually, when, when we went for a conference in San Diego, we were

Sanjna: 00:08:17

speaking to a VC investor in, in FinTech.

Sanjna: 00:08:21

And we were just trying to talk to her and you know, like have a

Sanjna: 00:08:24

casual conversation about Bitcoin.

Sanjna: 00:08:25

And she's like, okay, but you know what?

Sanjna: 00:08:27

I don't care about Bitcoin.

Sanjna: 00:08:28

It makes no difference to my life.

Sanjna: 00:08:29

And I'm like, but, do you, do you know, like are you trying to...

Sanjna: 00:08:33

we wanna make you understand why it should make a difference to your life, right?

Sanjna: 00:08:35

Like, even if you're from the U.S., you're not from a developing country, you

Sanjna: 00:08:38

don't realize how many issues the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:08:40

itself has.

Sanjna: 00:08:41

Like, printing money is such a big issue.

Sanjna: 00:08:43

And she's like, but why is it an issue?

Sanjna: 00:08:45

It doesn't make a difference to my life.

Sanjna: 00:08:47

And I'm like, but yes it does, because the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:08:49

dollar has lost 96% of its value since, I think, the past 30 years,

Sanjna: 00:08:55

how is that not a big problem?

Sanjna: 00:08:57

Right?

Sanjna: 00:08:58

And if you don't realize that inflation is such a big problem and interest

Sanjna: 00:09:01

rates are going higher and all of that, and you just think that all these

Sanjna: 00:09:05

issues are actually just in developing countries where, where citizens are

Sanjna: 00:09:08

getting their bank accounts frozen...

Sanjna: 00:09:10

no.

Sanjna: 00:09:10

That, that's not the issue.

Sanjna: 00:09:11

Our economy is, it just feels like it's been in in a

Sanjna: 00:09:14

recession for the past 20 years.

Sanjna: 00:09:16

It feels like the economy's never recovered.

Sanjna: 00:09:18

And, and, and why?

Sanjna: 00:09:20

It's because, it's because the money supply is not fixed.

Sanjna: 00:09:23

Bitcoin has a fixed money supply, right?

Sanjna: 00:09:25

When you don't have a fixed money supply, the government can do whatever they want.

Sanjna: 00:09:28

They can keep printing money, and then your money means nothing.

Sanjna: 00:09:32

And if you think you have this great job, and you're making like 5 K a month, 10 K

Sanjna: 00:09:37

a month, You're putting this into savings.

Sanjna: 00:09:40

You are not making anything.

Sanjna: 00:09:41

You're not realizing that the value of your money in 10 years time is nothing.

Sanjna: 00:09:45

And, and I think people are just so unaware that they

Sanjna: 00:09:49

refuse to believe that the U.S.

Sanjna: 00:09:51

has a problem or that U.S.

Sanjna: 00:09:52

has, or that Europe has a problem...

Sanjna: 00:09:54

that we live in these Western countries and continents, and the government's

Sanjna: 00:09:59

great, there's no corruption, and they're doing everything good for us.

Sanjna: 00:10:02

But, but no, it, it's just...

Sanjna: 00:10:04

you just need to educate yourself and try to understand what the

Sanjna: 00:10:07

problem is to realize we are in deep ****. Like, this is, this is

Sanjna: 00:10:12

not getting better at all, you know?

Sanjna: 00:10:14

And, like, people still don't understand why fixed money supply

Sanjna: 00:10:18

is better than printing money.

Sanjna: 00:10:19

Like, it's just, it, it's just education.

Sanjna: 00:10:21

It's just that we were never taught this in school.

Sanjna: 00:10:23

We were never taught about financial literacy.

Sanjna: 00:10:25

Unless you really choose to pursue economics and learn it in in university,

Sanjna: 00:10:30

why would people ever know this?

Sanjna: 00:10:31

'Cause the government doesn't want you to know this.

Sanjna: 00:10:33

It's not in curriculums in school, right?

Sanjna: 00:10:35

Like, governments are, are, are controlling what

Sanjna: 00:10:38

you're learning in school.

Sanjna: 00:10:39

Why were we never taught how to invest our money, what to do with our savings,

Sanjna: 00:10:43

what the problems of the economy are?

Sanjna: 00:10:45

We, we're still taught to believe that, again, like, this is something

Sanjna: 00:10:48

we teach on our, on our app, where you have Austrian economics and you

Sanjna: 00:10:52

have Keynesian economics, right?

Sanjna: 00:10:54

So in Keynesian economics we're taught that government control and

Sanjna: 00:10:57

government intervention is always needed when, when the government is...

Sanjna: 00:11:01

when the economy's doing bad, the government needs to intervene.

Sanjna: 00:11:04

But again, no, we don't need the government to intervene.

Sanjna: 00:11:07

We can self-correct, and we can come back up.

Sanjna: 00:11:09

It's just, it's just a cycle.

Sanjna: 00:11:10

It's just a cycle that all economies go through, right?

Sanjna: 00:11:14

And when the government's intervening, it's just getting

Sanjna: 00:11:17

worse and worse and worse.

Sanjna: 00:11:18

Like, I don't truly believe that we've even recovered from the 2008 financial

Sanjna: 00:11:22

crisis, and it's been 15 years.

Sanjna: 00:11:24

You know?

Sanjna: 00:11:25

So, it's, people are just so unaware and so oblivious because

Sanjna: 00:11:29

there's no education about it.

Sanjna: 00:11:30

That's what I truly believe.

Sanjna: 00:11:31

Because I, I was this person before I got into the Bitcoin space.

Sanjna: 00:11:35

I was ignorant.

Sanjna: 00:11:36

I just chose to believe that we live in a great country.

Sanjna: 00:11:39

Like, there's no issues.

Sanjna: 00:11:40

Everything's great.

Sanjna: 00:11:40

I have a job, you know, whatever I'm making.

Sanjna: 00:11:43

I, I invest, it goes into my savings.

Sanjna: 00:11:45

But you could do so much better.

Sanjna: 00:11:47

And, and you are not growing your money.

Sanjna: 00:11:49

And everything sounds like a dream.

Sanjna: 00:11:51

It's, it's not...

Sanjna: 00:11:52

what, whatever financial plan you have is just a vision.

Sanjna: 00:11:56

It's very unlikely that that's actually what's gonna happen.

Tali: 00:12:00

Thanks for joining us today and learning with us today.

Tali: 00:12:03

If the discussion with our guest resonated with you and you would

Tali: 00:12:07

like to dive deeper into the world of Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Tali: 00:12:11

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Tali: 00:12:13

The meetup link is in the show notes.

Tali: 00:12:15

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Tali: 00:12:20

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