Episode 74

Carri - "Bitcoin healed me..."

"Bitcoin: A Beacon of Hope"

In this episode, Carri and I dive into the world of Bitcoin and explore why it's more than just a digital currency; it's a symbol of hope and change.

1. Gold's Shadow: We begin by discussing how growing up in a family that valued gold as the ultimate safe haven made Bitcoin's potential stand out. It's not just about preserving wealth; it's about reshaping our future.

2. Beyond Wealth Preservation: Bitcoin offers something gold doesn't: a chance to transform individuals and society. It's not just a store of value; it's a world-changing technology.

3. A Personal Journey: Discover how Bitcoin became a personal journey of redemption for Carri, providing hope after years of doom and gloom.

4. Resilience Through History: We explore the stories of resilience in the face of adversity from the Holocaust to wartime experiences and how Bitcoin represents a new form of resilience in the financial world.

5. Finding a Community: Learn about the diverse and passionate Bitcoin community and how it offers a sense of belonging and shared purpose.

6. The "Cult" of Math: We address the simplicity of mathematics grounds our belief in Bitcoin.

Join us as we unravel the emotional and transformative aspects of Bitcoin, reminding us that even in uncertain times, there's always room for hope and optimism.

Carri's Contact Info:

Twitter: @carri_cee

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitcoin-People/videos

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Sponsorship FULL

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Transcript
Tali:

Hey, everybody.

2

:

Welcome to Orange Hatter.

3

:

I've gotten some feedback to upload the

interviews in one episode instead of

4

:

multiple episodes so that you can Listen

to the conversation from beginning to end.

5

:

Let me know if you would preferred the

other way we're experimenting we're

6

:

growing and we'll see how this goes.

7

:

Today's episode is with Carrie

and she is based in Australia

8

:

.

Carrie sees Bitcoin as a way to help her heal from a very negative

9

:

world outlook that she inherited

and has given her so much hope, not

10

:

only for herself, but for her son.

11

:

So I hope you enjoyed the conversation.

12

:

Welcome Carrie to Orange Hatter.

13

:

I am so excited to have you here and I

can't wait to dive into our conversation.

14

:

Carri: I am so happy to be here, Tali.

15

:

It's so gorgeous to meet you.

16

:

We've been in contact for a little

bit and I'm used to being on the

17

:

other side and asking the questions.

18

:

So, it's quite the novelty

for me to be a guest and to be

19

:

answering questions for a change.

20

:

So, thank you for the opportunity.

21

:

Tali: Absolutely.

22

:

I'm going to ask you

all kinds of questions.

23

:

We'll start with would you mind

just sharing with us a little bit

24

:

of information on your background?

25

:

Carri: Oh, wow.

26

:

Oh, where does one even start with that?

27

:

The, the background plotted

history goes something like this.

28

:

Born in the UK up till the age

of nine moved to Australia.

29

:

My early career was financial markets.

30

:

I was in stockbroking for almost a decade.

31

:

Didn't like it, didn't enjoy it.

32

:

It was during the kind of Wolf of Wall

Street,:

33

:

And I was put through a presentation

skills course, found my calling, the

34

:

clouds parted, the, the angels sang, and

I went, this is what I want to do with my.

35

:

life, and I became a

presentation skills trainer.

36

:

And later, I moved into difficult

conversations, influencing skills, writing

37

:

skills, business communication skills.

38

:

And I did that for about

30 years up until COVID.

39

:

When in the city of the longest lockdowns

in the world here in Melbourne, Australia.

40

:

My business really got smashed.

41

:

I, I was able to transfer to online

for the first year of lockdowns, but

42

:

in the second year clients were saying,

Oh, we'd actually like to book in

43

:

live again now that we're opening up.

44

:

So we would book in.

45

:

And then we would shut down again

and so we would cancel and then this

46

:

went on and then the year after that,

which was:

47

:

just trying to organize, getting back

into the offices and doing things like

48

:

wellbeing and stress management coaching,

which I'm not terribly interested

49

:

in that again, a lot of the business

communications was put to one side.

50

:

And in that time I had discovered Bitcoin

and I had discovered libertarianism

51

:

and I had found myself a new passion

and a new love and really started.

52

:

a new business and that just

about brings us up to date.

53

:

Almost, almost six decades in

hopefully less than six minutes.

54

:

Tali: Wonderful summary.

55

:

Let's let's rewind and go back to that

time during COVID when you were facing

56

:

the transition with your job market

because of the lockdowns and you're

57

:

discovering Bitcoin at the same time.

58

:

Like go into a little bit

more detail about that time.

59

:

Carri: So what happened there was

that in that second year, I started

60

:

to realize that I might need a

different source of income over time.

61

:

I hadn't given up on the business by

any stretch, but I had restarted that

62

:

business several times over the years.

63

:

So I had Well, when I first started, I

was working for someone else in Sydney

64

:

and I had to build the client base.

65

:

Then I moved to Melbourne and set

up offices for him and had to start

66

:

a new client base in Melbourne.

67

:

And then I left him on very, very

positive terms, but I wanted to broaden

68

:

out from just presentation skills.

69

:

And so when I left him and went

out on my own, I had to start

70

:

again and create a new client base.

71

:

And then when I had my

son I've only got the one.

72

:

And things went very slow for kind

of six months and it was really a

73

:

matter of having to restart again.

74

:

So by the time 2022 came around

and I was in my mid fifties,

75

:

I really wasn't up for it.

76

:

And I, I had always wanted,

I will be absolutely honest.

77

:

It was a great business and I loved it and

I loved the training, but I was tired with

78

:

the sales and the marketing side of life.

79

:

And to be honest, I'd always wondered what

it would be like to do something else.

80

:

Or was I going to simply do this

till the day I died, you know?

81

:

And it was a perfectly noble and

good, you know, like I know I've

82

:

changed lives in that business.

83

:

So.

84

:

It's very attractive, but it was also

kind of golden handcuffs and I always

85

:

wondered if I had it in me to start

something new and a girlfriend of mine

86

:

had done very well in the 2018 bull run.

87

:

She had been trading alt coins and done

extremely well and gotten out at the

88

:

right time and as a single mom of two

boys, one of whom was best friends with

89

:

my my boy and a single mom and a nurse

had just gone and bought her dream house.

90

:

on the back of her profits.

91

:

And I went, that sounds like a great gig.

92

:

So then I started trading altcoins

and didn't have her, A, her guidance,

93

:

cause she had someone helping

her a little bit, a friend, and

94

:

B her instincts, whatever it was.

95

:

And so I lost.

96

:

money on altcoins.

97

:

And at that stage, I'd started to

understand the difference with Bitcoin.

98

:

I'd started to listening

to different speakers.

99

:

Mostly they were talking about altcoins,

but every so often a Bitcoin speaker

100

:

would sneak through and I'd start to

understand the difference with Bitcoin.

101

:

And I started to understand

what Bitcoin was.

102

:

And I got really intrigued.

103

:

It just captured my imagination.

104

:

And then through the Bitcoin community

and listening to Bitcoiners, particularly

105

:

someone like Robert Breedlove, I

learned the word libertarianism.

106

:

And I got really intrigued . I

Googled to see if there was a

107

:

libertarian party in Australia.

108

:

And there was.

109

:

So then I joined the libertarian party.

110

:

So I found myself caught up in a very

new world and had found myself quite

111

:

isolated because I'd had a different

take on the pandemic and the lockdowns

112

:

and the mandates than many of my

friends and I found myself a little

113

:

isolated and so I guess I found a

new community in the Bitcoin and the

114

:

libertarian movements between them.

115

:

And so that helped to get me involved

and I think just it lit my imagination,

116

:

it lit my heart, it lit my soul.

117

:

There was just something about what

this could do for humanity that really

118

:

resonated with me and at the risk of

just being extremely long winded and

119

:

just to give you a bit of backstory

that I haven't included at this

120

:

stage, I was brought up by a gold bug.

121

:

So my mother was hyper aware of

issues to do with debt, to do with

122

:

what happened when we came off the

gold standard in:

123

:

stopped being backed by gold at all.

124

:

And she had painted a very, very

bleak picture for me over the years.

125

:

So and really gold was the only

investment that she trusted

126

:

and for all the right reasons.

127

:

And so I already, once I started hearing

about Bitcoin, not only did I connect very

128

:

quickly, with the problems that it solved.

129

:

But I also saw a much more hopeful

picture for humanity than I had

130

:

seen at any point in my life.

131

:

Even with gold, because I

didn't see gold as hope.

132

:

I saw gold as a potential escape, as a

way of maintaining value when the rest of

133

:

currency went to zero in purchasing power.

134

:

But I did not see it as hope for humanity.

135

:

Bitcoin not only has the capacity

to maintain purchasing power

136

:

against fiat, like gold, but it

is transformative in terms of what

137

:

it does for us as individuals and

therefore for society as a whole.

138

:

And it's a deeply, deeply

powerful, world changing technology

139

:

like the internet on steroids.

140

:

Tali: so let's dig a little bit deeper.

141

:

You said that when you came

across Bitcoin, you felt that

142

:

it lit you up heart and soul.

143

:

Tell us more about that.

144

:

Carri: Where do I start with that?

145

:

I think different speakers helped me

understand different aspects of it.

146

:

So I would listen to, and I will say

that One of the first people to orange

147

:

pill me was Robert Breedlove and his

series on zero and the idea of zero

148

:

and how transformative that was when

they discovered the digit zero, the

149

:

idea of zero, how it gave everything

from perspective to paintings to

150

:

transforming our capacity with math.

151

:

Et cetera.

152

:

So that was a really, I don't think

that was a starting point for me, but I

153

:

know his philosophizing around Bitcoin

really made me think about money and

154

:

think about the world and money as the

underpinning of society really deeply.

155

:

And I really love being challenged

mentally and being presented

156

:

with something brand new.

157

:

We watch movies, we listen to

books, we listen to podcasts

158

:

and so much is regurgitation and

formulaic and same old, same old.

159

:

And so I loved being presented with

something absolutely brand new.

160

:

I was listening to Alex Glanstein.

161

:

And he was presenting to me the case

for how the IMF and the World Bank

162

:

exploit the Global South and transfer

wealth from the weakest and the poorest

163

:

to the strongest and the richest.

164

:

And so to get that global perspective was

really Really, Alex Gladstein, for many

165

:

Bitcoiners, is a hero, and really and

appeals as much to the left as the right.

166

:

It's not a partisan issue, the

way that Bitcoin can sometimes

167

:

appear to be, and it really isn't.

168

:

And in terms of how it transforms

humanity, appeals, or should at least

169

:

appeal, to the left and the right equally.

170

:

And I was, I've also spoken to Lisa

Hough and she has no interest in

171

:

uptake at the institutional level

because she can see what it does at

172

:

the environmental level and the usage

of stranded energy and cleaning up.

173

:

If anything, it's got a, what I'm going to

say, a negative impact on the environment

174

:

has a negative footprint, not negative as

in bad, but negative as in reducing carbon

175

:

emissions, which is quite the antithesis

of how it's popularly understood.

176

:

And so I found each of those aspects

as I've delved into the energy side, as

177

:

I've delved into the philosophy side, as

I've delved into the humanitarian side.

178

:

Each one of those in their own

right has lit something within me.

179

:

And, and then of course there's the

macro side and listening to people

180

:

like Lyn Alden and Preston Pysh and

understanding the pieces that I already

181

:

had some understanding of in terms of

excessive debt and money printing and

182

:

the, and governments printing money to

paper over their problems to kick the

183

:

can down the road, ever increasing the

debt to the next generation and the next

184

:

generation and the next generation, such

that life just gets harder and harder and

185

:

harder as each year goes by as they go.

186

:

create inflation, even if it doesn't

look like it's very high inflation

187

:

rate, it compounds, and it makes

life hard for us individually.

188

:

And it makes life exponentially harder

for the next generation, and even

189

:

more so for the generation after that.

190

:

And then to hear someone as

intelligent as Lynn Alden, talk

191

:

about how Bitcoin fixes this, With

as a scarce resource that cannot be

192

:

inflated, that cannot be printed.

193

:

that may not turn everybody on,

but for me, that is a tremendously

194

:

exciting discussion and proposition.

195

:

Yep.

196

:

Tali: Yeah, I didn't hear about Bitcoin

until Scott was really nudging me about

197

:

it, a few years back, but I was listening

to Robert Kiyosaki's book called why

198

:

A students work for C students and

B students work for the government.

199

:

And in that book, he talked

about the elephant in the room,

200

:

which is the national debt.

201

:

And I remember listening to that

book and thinking how in the

202

:

world are we going to solve this?

203

:

Because at the time, this

was, this was 10 years ago.

204

:

So it's been a while.

205

:

But I didn't know about Bitcoin back then.

206

:

And there's, like, you look at this

huge problem and you just, you can't

207

:

even wrap your head around what

the solution could possibly be.

208

:

And then we find Bitcoin.

209

:

So.

210

:

Carri: And how hopeless would

life be without Bitcoin?

211

:

And I will say this on a very personal

note, being brought up by a gold bug

212

:

and being told every single conversation

from the age of five and probably less,

213

:

that The world is terrible and there's

no hope and Western civilization is

214

:

broken and is doomed and I suffered with

terrible depression for many years and

215

:

a lot of it was because of this sense of

doom and gloom and that there really was

216

:

no hope and that There was no way out.

217

:

And so perhaps for me, part of

the excitement of discovering

218

:

Bitcoin was, it was quite personal.

219

:

It wasn't just the global South.

220

:

It wasn't just debt.

221

:

It wasn't just the next generation and

all those kind of altruistic things.

222

:

There was something very

personal in it for me, that.

223

:

When I say it was the first hope I

had in over 50 years, I really mean

224

:

that at a, in a deeply personal way.

225

:

And as someone who's Jewish and was

brought up with stories of the Holocaust,

226

:

and my mother was brought up in the UK

being bombed, and I've told this story a

227

:

couple of different places, but you know,

her brothers were fighting in the war.

228

:

They were both pilots, I

think, or one might've been.

229

:

Air Force and one might have been Navy.

230

:

I might have that wrong.

231

:

And you know, cousin in

concentration camp, et cetera.

232

:

And Really, part of her whole, my

whole upbringing was the West is

233

:

going to hell in a hand basket.

234

:

People turn on each other when things get

ugly and Jews will be blamed and vilified.

235

:

And so there was a very personal

aspect to all of what was going on

236

:

with money printing and with debt.

237

:

It felt like the world was

a very dangerous place.

238

:

I never really got past that.

239

:

And Bitcoin.

240

:

started to help to heal me.

241

:

And part of that is the

hope of the protocol itself.

242

:

And part of it is the community who

perceive the world in a not dissimilar way

243

:

to me, and a sense of finding my tribe.

244

:

But it's a very broad

and very diverse tribe.

245

:

I've been toying recently, as I

think as we all do, when we first

246

:

encounter Bitcoin, is this a cult?

247

:

Am I falling for something here?

248

:

And then someone like Greg Foss is so

helpful here when he goes, it's just math.

249

:

And you go, okay, so

I'm in the cult of math.

250

:

I can live with that.

251

:

To the degree that math is a cult.

252

:

That's apparently the cult I'm a part of.

253

:

Tali: So let's do a really high

level bird's eye view comparison

254

:

between gold and Bitcoin.

255

:

Carri: I.

256

:

I'm just going to be quoting here

multiple other people, none of these

257

:

are original thoughts, but there

are certain key characteristics when

258

:

you look at the history of money,

of what rises to the top as money.

259

:

So, At first, you can just start

with kind of a credit based system

260

:

where we're on a small community and

I shoe horses and you bake bread.

261

:

Now, I shoe your horse and I know

that you owe me bread for a year.

262

:

So, maybe.

263

:

I don't know how much it costs to

shoe a horse, but let's imagine.

264

:

And that's okay as long as I know you

and you know me and we trust each other.

265

:

Or maybe you've got an apple orchard

and it's seasonal and you can give me a

266

:

hundred apples, but I can't get through

them all and they're going to rot.

267

:

So what starts to happen either when

we start trading with, and this is

268

:

very, this is so beautifully summarized

in Lyn Alden's latest book Broken

269

:

Money, really recommend to anybody.

270

:

But anyway Once you start trading with

other villages where you don't know and

271

:

trust the people, or where it's going to

be transactional and there isn't going

272

:

to be a long term relationship, or where

the apples simply don't work as currency.

273

:

Then we start to need a trusted

third what do we call it?

274

:

A third currency whereby we

can transact in something that

275

:

we can both hold and value.

276

:

and trust.

277

:

And that's been many

things over the years.

278

:

It's been everything from grain,

and soy, and salt, through to, so

279

:

consumables, through to shells, and

glass beads, and then eventually

280

:

metals, copper, silver, gold.

281

:

The reason why grains and consumables

don't work is if they're in high demand.

282

:

people simply grow more

and then it loses value.

283

:

It's being devalued in the market.

284

:

Well, I can just grow my own grain.

285

:

You can grow your own grain.

286

:

Why do I need yours?

287

:

It's no, it has no value to me.

288

:

So then you move to kind of glass

beads and shells and shells that

289

:

were polished in a particular way

and became a form of, of coinage.

290

:

But again, That can be mass produced

by people with better technology who

291

:

can make glass beads or shells in a

faster more efficient way or they've

292

:

got greater access to it and now

suddenly they are in effect the money

293

:

printer and they've got an unfair

advantage over the rest of society.

294

:

So that's why people moved more and

more towards metals, copper, silver,

295

:

gold, and ultimately gold because it

has multiple multiple characteristics

296

:

that have emerged over time naturally

as being attractive in a currency.

297

:

One of them is equally valued.

298

:

It's fungible.

299

:

My one gold ounce is the

same as your one gold ounce.

300

:

It's we can verify it.

301

:

We, we can weigh it and we can cut

it in half and we can melt it down

302

:

and make sure that it really is gold.

303

:

We can divide it to a certain degree,

although probably not small enough

304

:

to go and buy a pint of milk, where

we're really shaving tiny amounts

305

:

off, but we can divide it down just to

buy, you know, a hundred apples, say.

306

:

So it really, and most importantly, scarce

and difficult to dig out of the ground.

307

:

Just, and so there's enough that's

in circulation that's in stock on the

308

:

surface of the earth that it can work

as a currency, but there's not so much

309

:

coming out of the ground each year.

310

:

that it's going to devalue all the gold

that's all currently on the market.

311

:

So that's why gold won't put so long.

312

:

And then what happened is gold has a

couple of really impractical aspects.

313

:

One is the divisibility and

the other is transportability.

314

:

So if I go to trade with Russia in

oil, or if I go to my next door village.

315

:

I've got to get past Robin Hood with

my gold and he's going to steal it.

316

:

Or if I do it by ship, the

pirates are going to steal it.

317

:

It's very impractical and it's very slow.

318

:

So in terms of gold versus Bitcoin, which

was the original question that I'm now

319

:

coming back to having gotten on a bit of

a tangent of the history of money in terms

320

:

of gold versus Bitcoin, what we've got.

321

:

is some characteristics

absolutely in common.

322

:

It is scarce.

323

:

It is actually even scarcer than

gold in as much as its fixed supply.

324

:

There will only ever be 21 million

of them as written into the original

325

:

protocol and it can't be changed.

326

:

And we can get into the security

aspects of why it can't be changed,

327

:

but it really cannot be changed.

328

:

There's the divisibility.

329

:

So now, beyond gold, not only is it

fungible and therefore I can swap it

330

:

with you and one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin

and there's no differentiation, plus

331

:

I can verify it through my own node

and I know that that is real Bitcoin.

332

:

Plus it takes effort to

pull out of the ground.

333

:

So mining Bitcoin is a very difficult

process that requires huge, what

334

:

we call proof of work, which is

energy usage to guess, announce, to

335

:

mine the Bitcoin, to hash a piece

of Bitcoin currency, as it were.

336

:

So All of that, it has in

common with gold, but it has

337

:

two additional characteristics.

338

:

One is the divisibility, because

each Bitcoin is split into a hundred

339

:

million Satoshis, which are very,

very minuscule amounts that you can

340

:

use for day-to-day transactions of

the smallest good or service for a

341

:

single apple with negligible fees.

342

:

like transaction fees,

but it's also portable.

343

:

So if I want to buy Russian oil, I can

get Bitcoin to Russia instantaneously

344

:

and nobody can steal it and nobody can

interject and we don't need what happens

345

:

with something like gold over time.

346

:

The way they tried to get around the

transportability factor was to leave it

347

:

in the bank and then to issue certificates

against it that were as good as gold.

348

:

Yeah, that could be redeemed at

the at a bank at the other end.

349

:

What starts to happen is.

350

:

You can print paper certificates in

a way that you can at a greater rate

351

:

than the gold and so you've got way

more certificates in circulation

352

:

diluting in value versus the gold

that's actually being held in the bank.

353

:

And so the certificates or what became

fiat over time because there was no longer

354

:

any gold held against it as of 1971.

355

:

And you could argue earlier than that.

356

:

Suddenly that paper can be

printed and become worthless

357

:

and that's what we're seeing.

358

:

And so that's what's always going

to happen with gold because of

359

:

that problem with transportability.

360

:

It's always going to lead to

certificates and those certificates

361

:

are always going to be dilutable.

362

:

printable and dilutable in value.

363

:

Whereas Bitcoin, there's

no trusted third party.

364

:

They call it trustless, which

doesn't mean you don't trust it.

365

:

It means you don't have to trust

anything else except the protocol,

366

:

which you can validate for yourself.

367

:

And it's open source and you can

see the programming and you can

368

:

see the kind of the software

I've lost the correct word for it.

369

:

But everything is open.

370

:

And we've never had anything like this.

371

:

What we've always had is approximations

of money, something that we make do

372

:

with as money, but it doesn't really

perfectly meet all of the criteria

373

:

of what we now understand money

needs to be to work effectively.

374

:

And that's why Bitcoin is often referred

to as digital gold because it has

375

:

all those positive characteristics

of gold and none of the shortcomings.

376

:

Tali: That was a really,

really wonderful summary.

377

:

Thank you so much for that.

378

:

That's so helpful.

379

:

Let's talk about the Bitcoin protocol

or really the Bitcoin community

380

:

that has inspired you so much.

381

:

Carri: The protocol itself,

I'm not, I'm not a coder.

382

:

So I don't really get the tech as much

as I need to or want to and I've gone

383

:

down rabbit holes where I've really

tried to understand it and understand

384

:

SHA 256 and the cryptography and how

the difficulty adjustment works and how

385

:

the actual hashing of Bitcoin works.

386

:

And I've kind of got broad general

principles without getting the detail.

387

:

Luckily I've made enough friends in

the Bitcoin community over time with

388

:

people who are developers who can

explain that more to me and who I

389

:

trust personally enough to trust them.

390

:

And what they're telling me about

that in terms of the community.

391

:

I went down this rabbit hole very

much on my own to begin with you know,

392

:

really just off the back of that initial

contact with my friend who was trading,

393

:

but she wasn't a Bitcoiner per se.

394

:

She was a trader and she was a trader

of cryptocurrencies being the other 20,

395

:

000, 30, 000 projects that are out there.

396

:

that are entirely unrelated to Bitcoin.

397

:

And that's an absolute must

to differentiate in the world.

398

:

There's Bitcoin and then

there's everything else.

399

:

So I didn't really have anyone

and I was going down and I was

400

:

listening to these podcasts and I

was reading these books, et cetera.

401

:

And I heard advertised the

Miami Bitcoin conference

402

:

.

And I saw Michael Saylor was speaking there and Jack Mallers was speaking

403

:

there and Lynn Alden was speaking

there and I was just hearing all

404

:

these names and going, that is crazy.

405

:

I have to go.

406

:

I have to go.

407

:

And so I booked myself

a flight from Australia.

408

:

It's like 33 hours to Miami.

409

:

It's this crazy long journey.

410

:

I was so jet lagged when

I got to the other end.

411

:

And It was the first time

meeting another Bitcoiner.

412

:

But not only meeting another

Bitcoiner, I met, what was it?

413

:

35, 000 other Bitcoiners.

414

:

And I was saying to you before

we hit record, I lost my voice.

415

:

I talked so much.

416

:

I found my people.

417

:

I loved every minute.

418

:

It's embarrassing to say, but I would

talk deep into the night about Austrian

419

:

economics and, and stranded energy.

420

:

Kind of all these crazy things and

gold and, you know, and, and kind of

421

:

and just different people's approaches

and it was just mind blowing for me.

422

:

I just loved it and then I came back

to Australia and I was alone again.

423

:

And I'm like, this is no good.

424

:

So I started a podcast so that I

could just meet other Bitcoiners.

425

:

And that podcast has been going for

just on or just over a year now.

426

:

And I meet daily Bitcoiners

and I've met some of my heroes.

427

:

I've gotten to meet some of the

better known names in Bitcoin and.

428

:

It's now really kind of taken

over my life to a distressing

429

:

level for my husband and son.

430

:

But you know, it's given me a

new lease of life in middle age

431

:

and that can't be a bad thing.

432

:

You know, it's given me a whole

new, I seem to have these hobbies

433

:

that go for 10 to 15 years.

434

:

So at one stage it was self development

and psychology and, and spirituality.

435

:

Spirituality continues, I must say,

but I was really intensely into

436

:

all of that for about 15 years.

437

:

And I was really into dancing

for about 12 years or so.

438

:

And I was really deeply into

motorcycling for, again, about 10 years.

439

:

And now it's Bitcoin.

440

:

So I can see this totally taking over

for at least 10 to 15 years before

441

:

maybe something new comes into my life.

442

:

Like Satoshi Nakamoto, I might come

to a point where I go, I'm moving

443

:

on to other things, but I can't

see that in the foreseeable future.

444

:

Tali: So, how do they feel, your

husband and your son, how do they

445

:

feel about this particular hobby?

446

:

Carri: They tolerate it.

447

:

They tolerate it.

448

:

My...

449

:

Husband gets it, but unfortunately when

I was still trading crypto, I got him

450

:

into crypto and he got burned and so

he's very wary, even though he does

451

:

understand the difference with Bitcoin.

452

:

He's very wary of going anywhere

near it now, unfortunately.

453

:

He's also not someone who tends to

get hugely carried away with anything.

454

:

He's very stable and very You know,

even on a good day, even if he's

455

:

been out for a great motorbike ride

or a great ski or a great something,

456

:

he'll go, it was, it was good.

457

:

It was good.

458

:

I mean, I'd be just, I'd be jumping

out of my skin going, oh my god,

459

:

it's the most awesome day and I'm

full of hyperbole and noise and so

460

:

forth and he's just not that guy.

461

:

My son, I was actually really

interested the other day.

462

:

We went to the local market to

we were just we go there fairly

463

:

regularly on a Saturday morning.

464

:

And we went there, my son likes

to get a Kransky for lunch and

465

:

we'll have a wander around.

466

:

And my husband knows a lot of

the stallholders really well,

467

:

I'm a little less regular there.

468

:

And we chat with people and it's

a very hippie kind of market.

469

:

And there was one stall

there that took Bitcoin.

470

:

And so I went over there and I bought

myself a lemon meringue pie with

471

:

Bitcoin and ended up in conversation

with these guys and my son was with

472

:

me and they turned to him and said,

How do you feel about Bitcoin?

473

:

What do you think of it?

474

:

And he said, Oh, something

about I kind of understand it.

475

:

And they gave him a bit of a lecture.

476

:

They kind of indoctrinated.

477

:

Oh, it was amazing.

478

:

And they got it and the

gold and the whole thing.

479

:

And I went down that track and I got into

the car with him to come home and I went.

480

:

I don't know how much I should

be talking with him about it.

481

:

I don't want to put him off.

482

:

I know that when your parents talk to

you about something, if it's their hobby,

483

:

that's kind of, it's quite off putting.

484

:

I certainly had that experience as a kid.

485

:

So I tried to shield him from it a

little bit, but like you, he edits my

486

:

shows, so he's exposed to it, whether

he likes it or not, to some degree.

487

:

But he he got in the car and he said,

yeah, no, this is what I get about it.

488

:

And I only got the 21 million cap

and therefore it can't be printed and

489

:

therefore it can't create inflation.

490

:

And he gave me a two minute summary

and I went, okay, that's good enough.

491

:

I don't need him or want

him to get more than that.

492

:

I would love him to go heavily down

the rabbit hole and do a thesis But

493

:

he's got his whole life, and if

I shove it down his throat too

494

:

much at this age, I'm bound to be

counterproductive in my, in my efforts.

495

:

So I do my best to refrain and then

I just go to Bitcoin meetups and

496

:

I talk at a million miles an hour.

497

:

And so we've got about a monthly

Meet up down here in Melbourne.

498

:

Quarterly, we've got a Bitcoin bush

bash in the regional areas of Australia.

499

:

We rotate between Queensland, New

South Wales and Victoria and the

500

:

regional areas of those states.

501

:

And so I try and get myself along

to as many of those as possible.

502

:

So I'm meeting up with Bitcoiners and,

you know, and then just interacting

503

:

with them on Twitter and so forth.

504

:

And they're the people who I try to

release my pent up enthusiasm with.

505

:

Tali: So, what is the

community like there?

506

:

Is it pretty large?

507

:

Is it very small?

508

:

What is it like in Melbourne and

those four places that you travel to?

509

:

Carri: Yeah, really good question

and funny enough, it's a question

510

:

I ask people when I'm speaking to

them around the world on my podcast.

511

:

So I've tried to ask, you know, to get

a sense of it in Bulgaria and Namibia

512

:

and Nigeria Eastern Europe, et cetera.

513

:

And it's really difficult

to know or to tell.

514

:

I can tell you that just at our Bitcoin

Only conference last year, there was

515

:

maybe 300 people, but of course we

know only a very small section of

516

:

the Bitcoin community can actually

physically turn up to these things.

517

:

Many people are just holding and they have

high conviction, but that doesn't mean

518

:

that they're showing up to these events.

519

:

We've got...

520

:

I would say a smallish, so at the

bush bashes, we would end up, I mean,

521

:

bearing in mind, Australia is not a huge

population, and the bush bashes are hard

522

:

to get to, deliberately, proof of work,

you better find a way to get there.

523

:

So they're in these kind of quite

out of the way, remote towns.

524

:

So I would say, you get maybe 50

regulars at those and then at the

525

:

local Bitcoin meetup, there would

be probably an average of 20.

526

:

But I do know that in the Melbourne

community, I know quite a lot

527

:

of folk who don't show up to

the meetups on a regular basis.

528

:

So there's a lot of hidden Bitcoiners

who I'm not aware of and it takes time

529

:

to get to know the community and what I

like about it is that the people who are

530

:

there are very I'm going to say still

early adopters to the degree that even

531

:

now, I would consider we are all early

adopters and they're hugely enthusiastic

532

:

and everybody's doing their bit.

533

:

Everybody's actually in the industry,

or most of us are in the industry

534

:

in some way, shape, or form.

535

:

If we're running our own podcast

or building an exchange, you

536

:

know, running an exchange.

537

:

Or in some capacity involved in

building out the Bitcoin network,

538

:

whether that's the social layer.

539

:

Or whether that's the physical railways,

or whether that's at the lightning

540

:

development, which is layer two apps

everyone's involved in some way.

541

:

And that's the nature of the, a little

bit like I'm assuming the internet

542

:

community was in the early days.

543

:

before it was just everyone and you never

needed to look, you don't need to look

544

:

under the hood of the internet anymore.

545

:

At this stage, the early adopters are

people who have looked under the hood

546

:

of either macroeconomics or technology

and that seems to be the crowd.

547

:

And I would say that's reflective

of my discussions with Folk in

548

:

various countries around the world.

549

:

It's still relatively small, but there's

200 million wallet holders out there.

550

:

That's a lot of people who own at least a

tiny bit of Bitcoin for whatever reason.

551

:

They may not be all in with

the high conviction of what

552

:

it is and what it can do.

553

:

But there's enough and the adoption

that we're now seeing more broadly

554

:

across politicians and institutions

and high net worth individuals and it

555

:

there's a real groundswell going on now.

556

:

And.

557

:

We can still, the small person, the little

person, you and I can still front run

558

:

the big institutions in a way that has

never been possible in human history.

559

:

And that's really powerful and I think

the people in the community at the

560

:

moment understand that and feel really

privileged and many of them deliberately

561

:

keep their heads down and maintain

privacy and don't want to be seen or

562

:

heard in the public sphere because they

feel very strongly that this is going

563

:

to be a multi million dollar asset.

564

:

A single Bitcoin will be worth multi

millions and they don't want to stand out

565

:

in the community as being that person.

566

:

I'm so worried about that in my lifetime.

567

:

Tali: That will be very exciting.

568

:

Carri: It would be very exciting.

569

:

Tali: Yeah, let's talk about...

570

:

The transformative aspect, you have

mentioned that earlier, that it not

571

:

only is changing the way you look

at money, but it literally changes

572

:

the way you look at everything.

573

:

Carri: Yes.

574

:

So there's a number of different angles

where we could come at with this.

575

:

Once you start understanding money as a

core piece of communication of how people

576

:

transact with one another and the trust

we need in money in order to transact, so

577

:

really a base layer of the basic economics

of society, even about a society.

578

:

Once you understand that it represents

trust and that once the money is broken,

579

:

the trust is broken and the schism that

we're seeing in society and that we're

580

:

seeing play out in the culture wars

on Twitter and other social media and

581

:

frankly in the mainstream media as well.

582

:

And you start to see all of that as

a function of a broken money system.

583

:

And once you start to see the corruption

in government and the lobbying groups,

584

:

and I'm going to say it, big pharma

and the, and big media and big tech

585

:

and the crony capitalism, that is all a

function of what we call the Cantillian

586

:

effect, which is those closest to the

money printer benefit the most because

587

:

they Get the deals with the government.

588

:

They, if they're in the big finance, so

financial institutions are part of that.

589

:

And the people in those industries can

go out and spend the money on assets

590

:

like shares, property, gold, etc.

591

:

And so they can outstrip Inflation and

value of their assets goes up faster

592

:

than the rate of inflation and then

eventually inflation dribbles down to

593

:

the day in and day out goods and the

people who have been unable to invest,

594

:

who are unable to invest in assets.

595

:

and are just living paycheck to

paycheck, and now they're being

596

:

pummeled by inflation, and the

cost of living is going up and up.

597

:

And so the whole way in which you see

society becomes a representation of

598

:

what corrupt money has done to society.

599

:

And so I'm, I get caught up in the

culture wars and I have some very strong

600

:

opinions about lockdowns and mandates.

601

:

And it's not that I'm immune to this.

602

:

When I'm involved, when I'm looking

at Bitcoin and thinking about the

603

:

money and you go, it is absolutely

understandable how we got to this point.

604

:

And nobody is to blame except the money

printing over years and years and years.

605

:

And that's got absolutely nothing

to do with one party or the other.

606

:

Both parties do it equally.

607

:

So there's absolutely no

partisan angle on this.

608

:

Literally both parties do it.

609

:

Both parties are guilty.

610

:

And we suffer as a result and the

breakdown in society as a function of it.

611

:

So it does help to understand the

world in a bigger picture way.

612

:

And it doesn't mean I'm immune to being

petty and small minded and irritable.

613

:

. So that's one way in which it changes

things, the hopefulness at the

614

:

personal level, a sense of optimism.

615

:

At the personal level, it's for

me, it's about the community

616

:

and finding like minded people

and that's how it's changed me.

617

:

But at the societal level.

618

:

It feels like I have greater hope,

frankly, for my son and for his

619

:

generation, that things could change

for the positive in his lifetime.

620

:

And that to the degree that we might be in

a fourth turning now and a crisis period.

621

:

that we won't come out of for

a decade because that's how

622

:

long a fourth turning goes for.

623

:

So for anyone who's listening and doesn't

know what I'm referring to, there's a

624

:

book called The Fourth Turning that talks

about generations that go, it's that

625

:

it's kind of the story but it's much More

deeply elaborated in the book and quite

626

:

thoughtful and quite a sophisticated but

really the way that it often gets summed

627

:

up is strong men create good times.

628

:

Good times create weak men.

629

:

Weak men create bad times.

630

:

Bad times create strong men.

631

:

So that's the kind of concept and

we are at a time where we have had

632

:

weak men who have created bad times.

633

:

Weak men in government printing and we're

now in those bad times and a crisis period

634

:

at the societal and the economic level.

635

:

And I'm hopeful that by the time

my son is hitting the workforce

636

:

and, maybe get married and have

kids, we're actually through the

637

:

other side of this crisis period.

638

:

And who knows how quickly

Bitcoin might take off.

639

:

And I'm not interested

in the price of it here.

640

:

I'm interested in global adoption.

641

:

And how it starts to create and we've

just seen the BRICS nations, which

642

:

is Brazil, Russia, India, China, and

my understanding is that a bunch.

643

:

In fact, I need to look

into this and read this up.

644

:

But I think a bunch of South

American nations have now joined

645

:

BRICS, including Argentina and so

forth, you know, Peru, Venezuela.

646

:

So.

647

:

They all want to trade with each other

in something other than US dollars.

648

:

Their currencies are worthless to each

other, so they need a different option.

649

:

So they're looking at things

like a basket of commodities

650

:

backed currency of some sort.

651

:

And I don't think it's

going to take them long.

652

:

I mean, you've already got El

Salvador who's using Bitcoin.

653

:

You've got a guy running for president, so

he's the nominee for One of the parties in

654

:

Argentina, who's a hardcore libertarian,

wants to see the size of government.

655

:

So I, and he's talking about Bitcoin.

656

:

So you're getting some big front running

politicians talking about, and you've got

657

:

it on both the left and right in America.

658

:

So you've got Robert Kennedy, Robert F.

659

:

Kennedy on the left and Vivek Rimaswamy

on the right, both talking about Bitcoin.

660

:

We could see this happen.

661

:

We could see this happen in our lifetime

and certainly we could see it in my son's

662

:

lifetime and that's in your children's

lifetime and that's really hopeful that

663

:

we could see from these bad times, we

could see some strong men come in and

664

:

create good times and so within another

generation or two, God willing, we'll have

665

:

a very different, very different society.

666

:

Tali: Yeah, Scott talks

about that book all the time.

667

:

He keeps referring to the fourth

turning and he quotes exactly the same

668

:

part of the book that you just did.

669

:

So,

670

:

Carri: It's the best way to summarize it.

671

:

Tali: yeah.

672

:

Any last suggestions or recommendations

for women who are sitting on the fence?

673

:

Carri: I would say it can sound

when we get into it like it's quite

674

:

complicated or there's a lot of

different aspects or that at some

675

:

level you need to understand economics

or you need to understand technology.

676

:

You really don't.

677

:

All you need to know is that it is

a revolutionary technology that you

678

:

may as well have a little bit of.

679

:

Just in case.

680

:

What the hey, throw 20 at it.

681

:

Throw 20 a week at it.

682

:

Something that if you don't have the

conviction that I do, you don't need it.

683

:

You just want to go, what if, what

if maybe there is something to this

684

:

thing and it's a little bit like

buying Amazon in the early days.

685

:

Or if you could buy a piece of internet.

686

:

in the early days?

687

:

Or if you really want to think

about it, if I could have bought

688

:

the money printer in the early days?

689

:

Or what if I could own a piece of, because

this is about transaction technology,

690

:

what if I owned a piece of the Visa,

MasterCard, PayPal industry, collectively?

691

:

Because this could replace all of it.

692

:

All of them.

693

:

What if I got in on that early?

694

:

And I just threw something at

it that I'm not afraid to lose.

695

:

Twenty dollars, maybe a hundred dollars.

696

:

Learn a little bit about just how to

onboard it and what's called self custody.

697

:

Just look after it myself so that nobody

else can ever touch it or ever take it

698

:

or ever steal it from me in any capacity.

699

:

And just little, little baby steps.

700

:

Little baby steps of just, you know,

learn a little bit about an exchange,

701

:

transfer a little bit of money across

to the exchange, buy a little bit of

702

:

Bitcoin, and then get it off and self

custody in a cold storage device.

703

:

If you could do each of those steps,

set up with an exchange, transfer

704

:

some money over, buy some Bitcoin,

get your Bitcoin off the exchange.

705

:

Those four steps, 20 bucks, go through

those four steps, do those four steps

706

:

half a dozen times until you've gotten

a little bit more familiar with the

707

:

process and it doesn't seem so scary.

708

:

And who knows, you may be

setting you, your children,

709

:

your grandchildren up for life.

710

:

Tali: Wonderful advice.

711

:

Thank you so much.

712

:

It was so much fun talking with you.

713

:

Thank you so much Hatter

and sharing your stories.

714

:

Carri: You're a delightful host.

715

:

Thank you so much for having me.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Orange Hatter
Orange Hatter
Woman-to-Woman Bitcoin Conversations

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Tali Lindberg

Tali Lindberg

"Hello everyone, I'm Tali! If you had met me a few years back, you'd have found me in the thick of homeschooling my four incredible kids. That was my world for two decades, filled with lesson plans, school projects, and a whole lot of beautiful chaos. But once they all graduated, a new and unexpected journey began for me - in the world of Bitcoin.

The spark was lit by my husband, nudging me towards this peculiar thing known as Bitcoin. At first, I resisted. After all, the complexity of Bitcoin was intimidating and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, and even went as far as creating a bitcoin-mining board game, HODL UP, to teach me what it was. Before I knew it, I was orange-pilled, and my curiosity was piqued. What started as a casual dip of my toes soon turned into a fascinating dive into Bitcoin. Like my homeschooling journey, I took it slow, one baby step at a time, learning and adapting as I delved deeper.

Fast-forward to today, I am absolutely thrilled to share my Bitcoin adventures with all you amazing and busy women out there through this podcast. I've made sure the episodes are bite-sized and easy to follow, perfect for your coffee breaks or while running errands. My goal? To share my experiences and the experiences of other women in Bitcoin in an engaging, easily digestible way. Don't let time constraints or technical jargon stop you from diving into Bitcoin. As your friendly guide, I hope to provide a grounded, relatable perspective to help you navigate the Bitcoin rabbit hole. So, here's to us exploring this thrilling digital frontier together!