Episode 75

Lisa -"Eat, pray, love, Bitcoin's all I do!" - complete

In this episode of Orange Hatter, we explore the fascinating connection between Bitcoin and energy with Lisa, an expert in energy trading and finance.

This episode is the complete conversation with Lisa, a collation of previous Orange Hatter episodes 71-73.

1: Lisa's Background Lisa traded natural gas for big companies

2: Financial Services Lisa discusses her involvement in Bitcoin-related financial services, including Unchained. She hints at an upcoming role.

3: Real-World Impact Lisa explains how Bitcoin mining can make energy companies more efficient. She gives an example of a Texas power producer paying the grid to take excess power, showing how Bitcoin mining can help.

4: Aligning Incentives Lisa discusses the alignment of incentives between energy and Bitcoin mining, highlighting the benefits, including mitigating flared gas.

5: Why Should You Care? Lisa answers why everyday people should care. Efficient energy markets mean lower costs for consumers.

6: Supporting Free Markets Lisa concludes by emphasizing the importance of supporting efficient markets for the benefit of all.

To reach Lisa, email Info@CustodiaBank.com. https://custodiabank.com/press/custodia-bank-welcomes-lisa-hough/

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

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Transcript
Tali:

Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Today, you're listening to a

conversation I had with Lisa.

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Lisa, welcome to the show.

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So excited to have you here.

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I spoke to your daughter.

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Ella, not too long ago.

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And she spoke so highly of you.

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I just had to have you come on the show.

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So welcome.

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Thank you so much for giving your

time and sharing your story tonight.

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Lisa: Thank you, Tali Well Ella gets

in trouble if she doesn't say nice

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things about her mother, so I'm glad

that I've sufficiently scared her

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into singing my praises on your show.

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Good for her.

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Tali: She did such a fabulous job.

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I introduced my daughter to her and I

hope they will become long time friends.

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So we'll just jump right in if you

don't mind, share a little bit about

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your background with our audience

so they can have understanding

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of where you're coming from.

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Lisa: Yeah, well, thank

you again for having me.

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So I I spend most of my time

in the Bitcoin space at the

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intersection of two key areas.

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First being energy, because

that is my background.

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A long, long time ago in another

universe I traded natural gas

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and I worked for a lot of big

companies Enron being one of them.

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And a couple of utilities, a

couple of big producers, so I feel

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like I speak the energy language

and I sit right in Houston.

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So, you know, energy capital of the world.

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Also, what I like to call the Bitcoin

mining capital of the world, even

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though it may not be, and then the

other thing that I have been working on

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lately is the financial services aspect.

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My first Bitcoin company

was Unchained in Austin.

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Many people are familiar with Unchained.

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They help people secure

generational wealth and hold

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their own private keys for Bitcoin.

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And then I was with a startup that

was trying to buy a bank and offer

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financial services to Bitcoin companies.

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Unfortunately, our startup

didn't get off the ground.

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So I am doing some consulting,

but also probably announcing a

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next role in the coming week.

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So anyway, my interest sits firmly

in the energy section and the banking

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section and, and helping people.

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Have conversations really on

specifics of how Bitcoin mining

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can help improve efficiency and is

a creative for energy companies.

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And if you like, I mean, I'm happy

to give a couple of maybe real world

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examples to just paint the picture

for folks as to what that really looks

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like, because sometimes you hear these

words and, and you're like, okay, well,

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yeah, people say that it's good for.

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For energy companies, but I

don't really understand why.

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So, all right, you're nodding.

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So , I'll give you a couple of examples.

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So there , in Texas, we

our grid is the ERCOT grid.

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It's the electric reliability council

of Texas and ERCOT manages the projects

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that are coming on and it is their

mandate to provide reliable and efficient

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energy to all those that need it.

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So.

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As you can imagine, there's a lot

of scramble to create power to put

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onto ERCOT, and there's an increasing

push for renewables, it seems like

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everybody is ringing the bell for

climate change and for wind and solar

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and, and I don't want to come off

that I'm not pro Renewable energy.

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I just think that it is a little

bit unfounded to think that we

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will affect change, you know, by

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I don't see it happening and really

for a couple of reasons, but I'm going

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to give you an example of how Bitcoin

mining can affect an energy company.

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And then I'm going to circle back and

I'm going to give you an example of the

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alignment of incentives between energy

companies and Bitcoin mining companies.

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So the example that I would give

you is there's a relatively large

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power producer that's based in Texas.

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Although they have power plants

throughout the United States, but

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they're, they're based in Texas and.

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Non zero percent of the time, and I,

and I've heard the number estimated

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to be about 4 percent of the time

this company pays ERCOT the grid.

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To take excess power.

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So this company is running natural

gas power plants and and often they're

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combined cycle plants so they're

using, you know, at least two different

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types of fuel to make a plant run.

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And it's more cost effective or it's more

operationally efficient for them to keep

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running rather than shut a plant down.

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So they'd rather just pay ERCOT

to manage the load and let ERCOT

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distribute you know, power as they

are able, but, but this power producer

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pays someone to take power, right?

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So when you and I think about

Apple, 0 percent of the time, they

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pay someone to take their iPhone.

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Right.

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Like 0 percent of the time McDonald's

pays us to take a hamburger.

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It makes no sense for a huge entity

that makes, you know, that is in

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the power generation business to

pay the grid to take their power.

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And so, you know, it would

be uniquely beneficial.

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And in fact, these guys are in

discussions trying to make this work.

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They've put a team together to To

investigate and go through the required

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process to, you know, spin up Bitcoin

mining in order to absorb that power.

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So real world example, that's one real

world example of, of where that's helpful.

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A lot of people talk about so this is

example number two, a lot of people

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talk about flared gas and, and how

Bitcoin helps mitigate flared gas.

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And yes, that's absolutely true.

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It's a fantastic benefit.

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However, there's also a lot of economic

efficiency that can be gained in

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a field where you're not flaring.

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So I have a Bitcoin miner

that's here in Texas.

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He goes by Amalgamated Sludge

on Twitter, same as Dan.

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Dan has a property out in New Mexico

where he's got about 40 wells and

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has the ability to direct that gas

that's coming out of the ground

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into the Waja gathering system.

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Waja is a gathering system and a

pipeline system that's out in New Mexico.

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At times that Waha gas because

natural gas is priced by location.

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So it's, there's, I don't

know how many pipelines.

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Typically when you're trading

you're trading a specific region.

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So my first job I was trading

in the Gulf Coast and then I

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moved to trade in the Northeast.

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And then I, at the end of my career, I

managed the entire, you know, East Coast.

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So Gulf Coast assets.

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Okay.

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All the way up to, you know, kind

of New England assets, but in Dan's

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case, Dan is selling into what

at times is a depressed market.

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So what does depressed look like?

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Well, sometimes gas on Waha is

negative, which means that the

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producer that has expended capital

and energy and has site technicians.

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Who are pulling natural

gas out of the ground.

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They're actually having to

pay someone to take it away.

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Right.

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The other alternative would be to put

it into some sort of a storage facility,

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but in Dan's case, he doesn't have that.

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Like many people don't have storage.

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So you're really a price taker.

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You're, you're at the mercy of

whatever the market calls for.

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Now, at times, WAHA this, you know, in

the last 12 months I think normally

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it's, it trades pretty on par with

the Henry hub and Henry hub is the

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delivery point for natural gas futures.

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It's the largest pipeline it's it's

like kind of the, the namesake, if you

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will, most people are familiar with it.

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Typically trades a little bit below

or, 10 cents below 10 cents above the

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Henry hub, but when demand is high, it

could trade dollars above Henry hub.

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Right.

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And in that case, Dan's really happy.

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Dan sells all the gas that

he can make into Waha.

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But when demand on Waha is very low, why

would you pay someone to take natural

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resources that you've spent money to get?

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Right?

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So what did Dan do?

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Dan coordinated some capital got creative

and built a Bitcoin mining site, which

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he has completely bootstrapped himself.

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You know, he's got buildings

and bought generators and

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bought Bitcoin mining machines.

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So now he has the option

to economically dispatch.

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He can either send gas into the

pipeline or he can mine Bitcoin.

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So I'll pause there in

case you have a question.

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Tali: I have a question for people

who are not very familiar with

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the way energy is bought and sold.

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So for an everyday person, why

would someone like Dan who has

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a need to dispose of his excess

energy by paying somebody else,

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why would I care about that?

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So let's say I'm just a

regular, middle class person,

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in my mind, energy companies

have a lot of money.

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And so if they have to pay someone else

to take away excess energy, why would I

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care that he is able to turn that energy

into something useful like Bitcoin mining?

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Lisa: Well.

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Let me just start by saying

you don't have to care, right?

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You don't have to care about that

any more than you have to care about

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the dry cleaner that you have in your

neighborhood having an increased price

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of supplies or you know, lower demand

from their customers because of COVID.

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Right?

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You don't have to care about

Dan and Dan's business.

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You don't need to care about the dry

cleaner and the dry cleaners business.

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But, I guess where my interest truly

lies is in In the support of free

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markets and markets are efficient.

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So markets optimize for supply and demand.

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And so you don't have to care, but

you know, I don't know me myself.

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I'm really actually pretty excited when

I drive down into kind of like the bowels

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of all the refineries and stuff that are

South of Houston, because I feel like

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that's the heartbeat of America, right?

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There's fuel that's coming on shore.

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And that fuel provides me you know,

safety and well being and health and

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, there's a huge chunk of the population

globally that lives in energy poverty

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and energy poverty is defined as access

to less than four hours of energy a

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day, four hours of energy a day or less.

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Right?

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Like if you and I lived in a

situation where we had access to

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power our lights, our toaster, our

God forbid, our cell phone charger,

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like we'd be screaming, right?

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There'd be riots in the streets.

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And in fact, when, when there is massive

power outages at times, there are riots.

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So we don't necessarily

have to care about Dan.

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It does.

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support an ecosystem of wealth

and prosperity and safety.

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And we don't even have to go into the

whole, you know, where I think energy

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is key to our own national security.

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Sure.

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Energy production leads to our national

security and how Bitcoin ties into that.

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Which I think is an entire, another rabbit

hole, but You don't need to care about

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Dan, but I am sure that you and all of

your listeners want to go turn your light

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switch on and have it work or plug your

phone in and have your phone get juice

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or, you know, your kid wants to play

their video game and they want it to work.

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You have, daughters that are in school.

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I have a daughter in school.

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She needs to be able to log on and

do her homework or research a paper

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or, write code for a project.

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I mean, I don't know, like, we all have

our reasons for wanting to use energy and

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that's a whole another rabbit hole of,

like, who should get to decide what energy

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use is is worthy or not, like, Right,

like, we live in America, free markets

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rule, we should all be in support of that.

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Tali: Here's my very layman understanding

of how it all works and the reason

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for that question I just threw at

you which is that it's actually to

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everyone's benefit that energy isn't

just flared into the air or having

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to be paid to process the excess

because they're not doing it for free.

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You think it doesn't impact you,

but it does because they're gonna

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get that money somewhere and it

probably is coming from your bill.

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So my understanding is if they're able

to more predictably sell or utilize the

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energy that they have acquired, then the

savings is passed along to the customers,

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at least that's the way I understand it

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Lisa: right.

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Yeah, no, you're, you're, you're 100

percent right, and I think that's why

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I'm using Dan's name here because I feel

like when we can identify people, right,

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it's not just this, like, nebulous topic.

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I mean, there is an individual who owns

land that he has built buildings on

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and he employs people to work at so

that natural resources can come out of

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the ground, go into a pipeline, which

feed into a power generation facility,

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which feeds the grid so that Lisa and

Tali can turn on their light switch.

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Right.

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And the more power that's feeding into

those grids, the lower our prices are.

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Tali: Yeah, it goes back

to incentives for sure.

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So you came from energy trading and

now you are full time in Bitcoin.

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So I'm very curious about that

journey because you didn't

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find Bitcoin very long ago.

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Is that correct?

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Correct.

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It wasn't that long

ago, and you are all in.

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Lisa: I am irresponsibly

long involvement of Bitcoin.

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That is true.

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I...

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It's like eat, pray,

love Bitcoin's all I do.

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Yeah, I got into Bitcoin in 2018.

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I had a massive change in my life

and I had money in a managed fund

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with an investment manager and he

had me in 26 different mutual funds.

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And I just remember getting my

statement one day going like this

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isn't going to work for me anymore.

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Like, I don't feel like

I'm getting any value here.

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This is a lot of work.

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I'm paying this guy 2

percent or whatever it was.

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Like, I can do better than this I

think a little bit of it was like,

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okay, I can day trade my own account.

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I did get paid to day trade.

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I traded commodities, which I would

argue are harder to trade than equities.

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So I'll manage my own money.

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So I started this journey of

what do I want to invest in?

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Well, I knew I wanted to be long

energy companies and I knew I wanted

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to be long technology companies.

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So this is like early 2018 at the outset

you know,:

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day trade Amazon back then, right?

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Like it would open at one price and go up

and , I would probably make, I don't know,

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two or 3, 000 in a 30 minute time frame.

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And then I would . Not look at

the market again all day and be

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like, okay, I made 2, 000 today.

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Yay.

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It didn't take me very

long of doing that going.

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This is a lot of risk This

is actually a lot of work.

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I'm creating a huge tax event every time

I do this like this is not smart Right.

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It really, it really didn't

take me that long to go.

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I'm a lot simpler of a person than

wanting to manage a portfolio and

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study technology stocks all day.

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Like, this is not what I want to

do with my life, but I knew I was

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really interested in technology.

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And I could see that there, you

know, like everybody else, right.

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You could see that there

was a shift coming.

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Like we were in the midst of

a technological revolution.

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So I found a magazine.

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I don't know how I saw.

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I think I was in an airport.

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I stumbled upon it.

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The MIT tech review.

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I still take it today.

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I think it's a phenomenal publication

and they published a list for

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many years in a row of the top

technology companies of the year.

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So I, I built a very pedestrian

spreadsheet to try to look for

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similarities and signal, you

know, who are the seed round

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investors of these companies?

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What was the technology, right?

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It was like genomics, AI

social media consumer related,

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you know, whatever, right?

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Like this started their list

started, I think, in:

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So I started looking at those companies

and what really struck me as interesting

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was this word blockchain and I was

like, oh, wait, if I buy blockchain, I

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am going to be financially set, right?

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Like, I'm going to invest in

blockchain, blockchain is the future.

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Well, I cringe saying those words now

because I mean, after:

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I realized that, you know, and I'm no

technology expert, this is not financial

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advice, but if anybody tells me they're

interested in blockchain, not Bitcoin,

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that's like saying I'm interested

in copper wire, not electricity.

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Right?

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Like, you've missed it.

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You're totally wrong.

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But nevertheless, I kept

Googling blockchain.

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How do I buy blockchain?

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And I came upon Bitcoin, started studying

some and Ethereum and, you know, all the

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other sort of alt coins that we regard

as just, I regard as just garbage now.

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But nevertheless, that was my journey.

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I started studying technology

stocks, studying blockchain.

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Day trading all of the, you know,

like 20 tokens, like a complete degen.

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And again, it like, didn't

take me very long to go this is

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the biggest waste of my time.

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I don't want to sit on Twitter and watch

the alerts for whatever token, like, this

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is just, something's not right in Denmark.

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I am going to stop.

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I'm not going to do this.

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And I just kept my Bitcoin.

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I sold everything else and I

kept a little bit of Bitcoin.

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I didn't have a huge

allocation at that time.

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I had most of my assets in Amazon and

Apple and I don't know, probably like

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10 or 15 energy companies from Kinder

Morgan to Momentum, I mean, just

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a whole bunch of pipeline companies

and kind of midstream companies.

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So anyway, so from, that's 2018.

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And I don't know, by about 2020, I just

got further and further down the Bitcoin

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rabbit hole and I had moved from the

East coast back to back to Houston.

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And I thought, well, I'll go back

to work in the energy business.

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And, I just started talking with

folks and having conversations

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and I was speaking with an oil

and gas person one day who said.

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Yeah, you should really be

a consultant for Bitcoin.

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You should explain Bitcoin to people.

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And he was actually really kidding.

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He wanted to date me and he

didn't want to talk about Bitcoin.

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So he wanted me to go talk

about Bitcoin with other people.

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So he was like, you know, you should

go talk about this during the day.

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So we can talk about

something else at night.

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And it was really funny and he was right.

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I should be talking about

Bitcoin all the time.

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So I spun up a deck and I started telling

people that I was a Bitcoin educator and

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that I could help them understand Bitcoin.

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And, that's how I got here.

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I got hired by a Bitcoin company.

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I went to work for Unchained.

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I went to the Texas

Blockchain Council event.

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I met Parker Lewis.

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We had a couple of conversations

and two weeks later, I was working

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at Unchained and I've been working,

full time in Bitcoin ever since.

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And just to bring that all home,

I mean, I work in Bitcoin because

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I think it's reachable, it's

understandable, it's knowable.

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It's accessible to everyone.

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You don't need to have an MBA.

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You don't need to have

graduated from college.

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You don't need to have any special

skills or you know, you don't need to

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be an analyst of any type to understand

that it is the most scarce asset

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on earth and scarcity drives value.

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And if you can really just

understand that one concept.

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You can understand why Bitcoin

over time will become the most

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valuable asset on earth and why it

is such a vortex for value, right?

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It's like sucking value out

of every other asset class.

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And the market cap of Bitcoin is

growing, but what's most exciting

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to me is that the number of

users on the network are growing.

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So, as Alex Gladstein has said

in his piece, multiple pieces,

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it's not number go up technology.

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It's freedom go up technology.

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Tali: So when you first came across

Bitcoin, as part of your general

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interest in blockchain technology,

when you're doing your research, what

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set it apart from the other so called

shit coins now That made you really

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open your eyes and go wait this is

the only one that I want to focus on

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Lisa: There's no marketing

team and there's no CEO, right?

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It just is what it is.

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It's code.

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It's pure.

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There's no gimmicks.

361

:

There's no sales team.

362

:

There's nobody collecting 2 percent

a year to manage your assets.

363

:

Right.

364

:

It just is what it is.

365

:

It's the way to, own a more beautiful

proper form of property than Malibu

366

:

beachfront property or name,

whatever you think is you know, it's

367

:

like owning the Rocky Mountains.

368

:

It's, it's like this majestic, pure,

unpolluted asset, you know, no matter

369

:

how many of us try to screw it up.

370

:

Right.

371

:

Like us, like the collective us of

people creating products, I mean, I

372

:

really am appreciative of BlackRock.

373

:

I think that their leadership and stepping

into the spaces is huge and will be

374

:

huge for people touching this asset.

375

:

And , it's been a long road,

the mainstream media has not

376

:

been a friend to, to Bitcoin.

377

:

Warren Buffett has not

been a friend of Bitcoin.

378

:

There've been a lot of negative

narratives that have kept good

379

:

people out of this asset class,

380

:

Tali: yeah there's definitely a lot of

misunderstanding surrounding bitcoin

381

:

and Now that Black Rock and other

companies are proposing the ETFs.

382

:

Can you explain?

383

:

Since you're background is in finance

what the difference is between the Bitcoin

384

:

that you hold and an ETF for our audience?

385

:

Lisa: So Bitcoin is a

physical bearer asset.

386

:

And what that means is that you can

actually physically take possession of

387

:

the asset and be in complete ownership

of the asset without a third party.

388

:

And as you know, and probably many people

in your audience knows, but for those

389

:

that don't private keys are the asset.

390

:

Bitcoin lives on the blockchain.

391

:

Bitcoin does not live in a

hardware device or signing device.

392

:

Right.

393

:

It although people often think that

those things are that is the asset

394

:

and if you lose that, that signing

device or that hardware device, right.

395

:

It kind of looks like your key fob.

396

:

I, I think it looks like my key

fob and the way that I equate it to

397

:

people is that so if I have my, my

key to my car and I press the unlock

398

:

button, it is transmitting a code to

my car that allows My car to unlock.

399

:

And when my key is inside my

car, it allows my car to start.

400

:

Right.

401

:

So you would agree that

that's a code inside that fob.

402

:

If I lose that fob, have

I lost my asset, my car?

403

:

No, I can go down to the dealership

and pay the dealership 350 or whatever

404

:

ridiculous price it is to replace that

key fob, but they will load the code

405

:

into a new key fob for me, and I will

drive down the road mad, but I will be

406

:

driving down the road again in my car.

407

:

So those hardware devices, those

hardware, those signing devices.

408

:

look like a key fob.

409

:

And what they do is they, they hold your

seed phrase or they hold your code so

410

:

that when you use that and access Bitcoin,

so let's say you're like an unchained

411

:

client or a Casa client, you have a multi

sig collaborative custody agreement.

412

:

And you're signing a transaction, right?

413

:

Like it's got the code in it.

414

:

It makes it easy so that you don't

have to punch in all the digits, but

415

:

if you lose your hardware device, as

long as you have the digits written

416

:

down, you still own the asset.

417

:

So in an ETF like that BlackRock and

basically every other financial services

418

:

firm in the world will eventually

offer it is a wrapped form of Bitcoin.

419

:

And what that means to you is that you may

hold air quote Bitcoin in your retirement

420

:

account or in your whatever account

it is within Fidelity or BlackRock.

421

:

But you don't hold those keys.

422

:

Someone else holds those keys.

423

:

You have essentially price

exposure to the asset, but you

424

:

don't actually own the asset.

425

:

So, I'm delighted that

BlackRock is doing it.

426

:

I'm delighted that That other

financial services firms are going

427

:

to help people touch Bitcoin.

428

:

I would just offer to folks that,

you know, know the difference.

429

:

It's fine, I guess, to own inside of

BlackRock, but, you know, I, I think about

430

:

Bitcoin, like part of the beauty of it is

we dial back to kind of like:

431

:

when people are walking out of Germany

and they're going into Poland, or they're

432

:

going into like, they're escaping Germany.

433

:

You can visualize what those people look

like they're in their winter coats and

434

:

their pockets and their clothes are just

stuffed with gold and their candlesticks

435

:

and all their silverware and everything

of value is stuffed in their pockets,

436

:

and they're crossing a border, but

with Bitcoin, you need your 12 words.

437

:

And you can cross a border and have a

hundred percent of your wealth, right?

438

:

Or a hundred percent of what you've

got invested in Bitcoin, right?

439

:

Like nobody can take it from you.

440

:

And I mean, some people say that they

memorize their 12 words and then they

441

:

feel like, you know, they can cross any

border without, you know, essentially

442

:

they can cross without anything in

their pockets at all and get to the

443

:

next country, buy a phone, download a

Bitcoin wallet and put the 12 words.

444

:

And there's your net worth.

445

:

Like it's kind of miraculous.

446

:

Tali: I love that

visualization with the key fob.

447

:

I've never heard that before.

448

:

It's such a perfect analogy.

449

:

It's so easy to visualize what it is.

450

:

There's a lot of, I think, confusion

with the chosen word to describe

451

:

something like when they say

hardware wallet, what is that?

452

:

You know, but I love that.

453

:

I love that imagery of the

fob that really makes sense.

454

:

Thank you for sharing that.

455

:

So I, I was going through your

LinkedIn to see about your posts

456

:

and you said something about how you

like to combine sailing and Bitcoin.

457

:

Talk to us a little bit about that.

458

:

Lisa: Oh, that was an article that was

not mine that, but that was an article.

459

:

I think it was in from

Bitcoin magazine or something.

460

:

I try to really be an advocate for

folks that are writing and folks that

461

:

are actively working in the space.

462

:

So I like to share articles stuff

that I find interesting and also

463

:

just to keep, you know, I'm on

LinkedIn because I want to reach

464

:

people that aren't in our community.

465

:

And I actually, I probably get, I don't

know, 10 direct messages a day from

466

:

people who say, I heard you on a podcast.

467

:

I heard you on Tali's podcast.

468

:

I heard you on whatever you

said, you'd talk to me about

469

:

Bitcoin or Bitcoin mining.

470

:

Can we connect?

471

:

And I absolutely love that because

There are people in all sorts of

472

:

industries who are trying to touch

Bitcoin and they just, it's, it's not

473

:

like I'm giving them a hand up, but

like they need a way to touch Bitcoin.

474

:

And so if I can be a tangible

representation to somebody of like, here,

475

:

let me point you in the right direction.

476

:

You should go talk to these

five people, or you should read

477

:

this book, or you should like.

478

:

I feel like that's what I'm here for, just

to facilitate you know, just, I want to

479

:

see the growth of this, of this industry.

480

:

I feel like I work for Bitcoin.

481

:

It fills me with purpose and joy, and

it's a privilege to have each and every

482

:

one of those conversations and really

hear what other people's journeys are.

483

:

I mean, it's really, it's exactly

what you're doing right here.

484

:

You're asking me what my journey is,

and that's what I do every day when

485

:

I talk to people that I've talked to

strangers that I've met on LinkedIn.

486

:

Tali: Yeah, I really appreciate that

you're on LinkedIn, because sometimes it

487

:

feels a little bit on the Twitter space

where it's almost like an echo chamber.

488

:

We're just saying stuff to each other.

489

:

So I really appreciate what

you're doing on LinkedIn.

490

:

I got excited when I saw that because

and I was looking at it really because

491

:

you do repost a lot of things and I was

like, I just need to make sure that this

492

:

actually hers because sometimes the

repost word is really, really small.

493

:

But I was so sure it was you.

494

:

Sorry about that.

495

:

Lisa: I, so I do sail.

496

:

I spent a lot of my life sailing.

497

:

Ella is an amazing sailor.

498

:

She's sailed competitively.

499

:

Her dad has sailed around the world.

500

:

I mean, he's like off

the charts, but Yeah.

501

:

Unfortunately, right now I live

in a concrete jungle in Houston

502

:

and I just count my lucky stars

that I get to talk about Bitcoin.

503

:

Unfortunately, I'm not, not on a sailboat

too much, but but I saw that article

504

:

and I, I thought the graphic that the

magazine included, especially with that

505

:

article was, was great and eye catching.

506

:

And it did garner a lot of comments.

507

:

And again, I don't post for engagement.

508

:

I post because I want people

to come into this arena.

509

:

I want them to bring their businesses

and their thought leadership , into

510

:

Bitcoin so that we can push this further.

511

:

Tali: Yeah, that's what I love about

talking to all these different women.

512

:

They all have such different backgrounds.

513

:

They come into this space with

their own expertise and viewpoints.

514

:

we're all different people

and bitcoins for everybody.

515

:

And so just to be able to hear

how everyone is applying Bitcoin

516

:

in their own lives is wonderful.

517

:

For example, one mom said that's her

saving vehicle for her kid's college fund.

518

:

Another one is for her retirement,

and then there are a couple of

519

:

them just actively trying to orange

pill the merchants in their city.

520

:

And you know that they're

taking it upon themselves.

521

:

They have nothing to gain.

522

:

They're just sharing good news.

523

:

So this has been just

really fabulous to witness.

524

:

So the people who reach out to you on

LinkedIn, have you seen any common

525

:

trend or type of people or reason?

526

:

When they come and contact

you and talk about Bitcoin.

527

:

Lisa: I would say regrettably it's

mostly men, I wish that it was, I mean,

528

:

I'm super happy to talk to men, but

it's mostly men in the energy space

529

:

that want to figure out how to get

into the Bitcoin space, or they want.

530

:

They're in the real estate space or they

work for I actually get quite a few people

531

:

from, from the big banks that reach out to

me and they want to have a conversation.

532

:

Yeah, I, I wish and I, you know

what, actually, I think that's just

533

:

a reflection of who's on LinkedIn.

534

:

I think a lot of women aren't on LinkedIn

or you know, I wasn't on LinkedIn

535

:

until I started working in Bitcoin.

536

:

I, not my entire life.

537

:

Like I just didn't.

538

:

Like wasn't within my realm and I feel

maybe like I've, maybe like LinkedIn

539

:

is a thing of the past, but then I keep

using it and it's not, you know, like

540

:

it's, it's a very active, vibrant space

and I get asked to speak at I've spoken

541

:

at universities, I'm involved with

some symposiums restructuring groups.

542

:

It's law firms, investment banking

teams, and they're on LinkedIn.

543

:

So I am happy to continue to publish

, content and links to stuff because the

544

:

sooner more people adopt Bitcoin, just

leads to a whole bunch of good outcomes

545

:

for everybody around the world, right?

546

:

It isn't number go up,

it's, it's freedom go up.

547

:

And it's getting out of the censorship

circle that we're in, and it's getting

548

:

out of the human trafficking circle

that we're in, and it's getting

549

:

out of this this, this complete

doom that lurks over our cities.

550

:

I mean, I was just in Austin for

BitBlockBoom last weekend, and I

551

:

mean, just, like, the number of

people that were sleeping in the

552

:

streets and strung out on drugs,

like, that's because the money is bad.

553

:

Right?

554

:

It's it's the money is bad.

555

:

Our money is broken.

556

:

Our schools are broken.

557

:

We need to shake up the extra sketch,

forget everything that has become a

558

:

socialized norm and go back to basics.

559

:

Right.

560

:

One ingredient food.

561

:

I don't want to get off on a Bitcoin

tangent, but like we eat garbage.

562

:

We watch garbage.

563

:

So our lives are garbage.

564

:

And I think, at least for me, like getting

into Bitcoin, it's like you really I

565

:

don't know, you, you see how much better

things can be and you're so hopeful.

566

:

I mean, I, I used to really

worry, Tali, honestly that I

567

:

would be living under a bridge.

568

:

I was like, okay, well, I, I

have some money, but not a lot.

569

:

And will it last for my lifetime?

570

:

Because in my family, like people

live to be in their mid nineties.

571

:

And I just thought, I don't know

how I'm going to have enough money

572

:

to live into my mid nineties.

573

:

And when you look at the statistics of an

everyday person, like very little savings.

574

:

You know, inflation is 14%.

575

:

I mean, even though they say it's

five or seven, it's probably 14, 20%.

576

:

I mean, it's very, very high.

577

:

If you just look at the cost of goods

over the last 50 years, I mean, why

578

:

does the price of goods of stuff go up?

579

:

You know, like.

580

:

Why?

581

:

It goes up because of inflation,

not because the hamburger

582

:

got a whole lot better.

583

:

So when you're in Bitcoin, I mean for

me, I just, it's completely changed

584

:

my mind on like, all right, I'm gonna

choose health as a lifestyle, right?

585

:

I'm gonna choose exercise as a lifestyle.

586

:

I'm gonna choose eating well as

a lifestyle because I want to be

587

:

around, I want to see how society can

transform itself into something better.

588

:

Tali: Yeah, I wanted to follow

up and ask you how your life has

589

:

changed outside of your career.

590

:

After you came into the Bitcoin space

like you said a lot of people are starting

591

:

to look at literally their entire life

differently because we realize how much

592

:

money has Impacted all of our choices

and the choices of people who are

593

:

providing the goods and the services.

594

:

So how has bitcoin impacted your life

in, in what way have you changed?

595

:

Lisa: I think I'm a very simple person.

596

:

I joke that my ideal is

to be a:

597

:

Like, I love to iron, I love to cook,

I love to bake I drive a station

598

:

wagon, I love driving a carpool.

599

:

Like, when Ella's home, I

love driving her around.

600

:

I'm a very simple person and there's a

lot of joy in a simple way of living.

601

:

There's a lot of joy of not living

connected to social media and,

602

:

and not trying to, you know, what,

here's how my life will change.

603

:

I, I am more focused on health.

604

:

I am more focused on what I eat.

605

:

And my goal is to quit being so vain

and maybe one day quit dying my hair.

606

:

How's that?

607

:

Like, I feel like Bitcoin is

gonna give us all permission just

608

:

to , take a step back and , go grow

our own food and have chickens.

609

:

And get back to real, the real,

like why we're really here on earth.

610

:

I believe that we're here on

earth to help other people, right.

611

:

To help one another.

612

:

We're here for community.

613

:

We know that community is the number

one outcome of happiness in life

614

:

is what your community looks like.

615

:

It's like, why don't we focus on that?

616

:

And that's the cool thing

about Bitcoin is that it is this

617

:

fantastic virtuous circle of people

who are building community and

618

:

are supportive of one another.

619

:

And.

620

:

You know, we're all probably gonna

live to be a hundred and, we're

621

:

gonna have food and shelter and the

world's going to be a better place.

622

:

So everybody needs to come and join along.

623

:

Everybody needs to buy Bitcoin so

that they have health and safety

624

:

and prosperity in their old age,

625

:

not financial crisis,

626

:

Tali: I love what you said

about living a simple life.

627

:

That's the way I see Bitcoin, which

is, you were describing how you

628

:

were day trading and you had to be

watching the news and you have to

629

:

be on your computer and you got to

time the market and all that stuff.

630

:

I mean, you're taking risks and

you have the stress of doing

631

:

it profitably or losing money.

632

:

Like, to me, that seems very complicated.

633

:

And I tell my kids as I tell it like a

joke, but it's really not even a joke.

634

:

When I was going to business school,

I was watching Animal Planet.

635

:

Everybody else was watching the Bloomberg

and watching, you know, the price

636

:

go up and down in the stock market.

637

:

And I was just like, I want to

look at zebras crossing the safari.

638

:

So I love, I love how Bitcoin allows

us to just store wealth without adding

639

:

complications, and then you get to

free up your mind and do other things.

640

:

Like, cooking in the kitchen, and

like you said, you know, planting

641

:

a garden and raising new animals.

642

:

Like, you know, not necessarily fun stuff

for everybody, but just like simple stuff.

643

:

If you want to be an artist, then you

have a very straightforward way of

644

:

storing value for yourself, wealth for

the future, and you just focus on art,

645

:

or, or anything else that you choose.

646

:

It's almost to me, Bitcoin is

like a simplifier for life.

647

:

Lisa: big time.

648

:

I mean, we so complicate our lives.

649

:

I, I have friends and, and I

used to be this person, right?

650

:

Like you'd, you'd join a gym,

you'd get your car washed.

651

:

You're like, you have a housekeeper.

652

:

Maybe you like, you just spend

money all the time on stuff that, I

653

:

mean, I look back now and I think,

I mean, I'm not going to join a gym.

654

:

Like I'm going to clean my own house.

655

:

And that's.

656

:

It's an incredible workout actually, and

then I don't need any money to help me.

657

:

And also I'm not paying

the monthly fee for a gym.

658

:

And I also love washing my car.

659

:

I wash my car every Saturday

because I love a clean car and I

660

:

love not driving through somewhere

and paying 35 for someone to wash

661

:

my car when I should be washing it

anyway because it's great exercise.

662

:

So it's like re.

663

:

Framing how you think about how you spend

money is what Bitcoin has helped me do and

664

:

I could definitely go get my car washed

and I could definitely have you know, I

665

:

mean, it's, it's not like I feel deprived.

666

:

It's, it's a choice.

667

:

I'm like, gosh, you know what, like, I

need to be healthy when I'm 95 because

668

:

I have Bitcoin and I'm going to have fun

and I have all these friends and I have

669

:

Ella and I have stuff I want to do and I

want to travel and see 50 more countries

670

:

and I got to be well to do that.

671

:

Tali: Yeah, for sure.

672

:

Any last recommendation suggestions

for women who are sitting

673

:

on the fence about Bitcoin?

674

:

Lisa: Well, they should go back and

listen to every one of your podcasts.

675

:

And if anybody wants to reach out to me,

you're welcome to reach out on Twitter.

676

:

You're welcome to reach out on LinkedIn.

677

:

I, I, I will send you a, I hate this,

but I'll send you a Calendly link.

678

:

One of my friends set me up with Calendly.

679

:

It actually is a game changer.

680

:

I really do like it.

681

:

Although I, I just hope people don't

think it's tacky to like get a calendar

682

:

link, but I'll send you a calendar link.

683

:

We can book some time.

684

:

I love doing that.

685

:

It's the highlight of every single

day and I don't know I wish people

686

:

joy and prosperity and You know, like

go do go do good things for others.

687

:

It's it is the key to happiness

688

:

Tali: Awesome.

689

:

Thank you so much, Lisa.

690

:

Thanks for joining us today

and learning with us today.

691

:

If the discussion with our guests

resonated with you and you would

692

:

like to dive deeper into the world of

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

693

:

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

694

:

The meetup link is in the show notes.

695

:

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

696

:

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

697

:

Until next time, bye.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Orange Hatter
Orange Hatter
Woman-to-Woman Bitcoin Conversations

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Tali Lindberg

Tali Lindberg

"Hello everyone, I'm Tali! If you had met me a few years back, you'd have found me in the thick of homeschooling my four incredible kids. That was my world for two decades, filled with lesson plans, school projects, and a whole lot of beautiful chaos. But once they all graduated, a new and unexpected journey began for me - in the world of Bitcoin.

The spark was lit by my husband, nudging me towards this peculiar thing known as Bitcoin. At first, I resisted. After all, the complexity of Bitcoin was intimidating and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, and even went as far as creating a bitcoin-mining board game, HODL UP, to teach me what it was. Before I knew it, I was orange-pilled, and my curiosity was piqued. What started as a casual dip of my toes soon turned into a fascinating dive into Bitcoin. Like my homeschooling journey, I took it slow, one baby step at a time, learning and adapting as I delved deeper.

Fast-forward to today, I am absolutely thrilled to share my Bitcoin adventures with all you amazing and busy women out there through this podcast. I've made sure the episodes are bite-sized and easy to follow, perfect for your coffee breaks or while running errands. My goal? To share my experiences and the experiences of other women in Bitcoin in an engaging, easily digestible way. Don't let time constraints or technical jargon stop you from diving into Bitcoin. As your friendly guide, I hope to provide a grounded, relatable perspective to help you navigate the Bitcoin rabbit hole. So, here's to us exploring this thrilling digital frontier together!