A Gen Z's Journey with Bitcoin - Part 1

Tali: 00:00:00

Hey everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Today you'll be listening in to my conversation with Ella.

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She is a college student and has a fascinating story to

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share, so I hope you enjoy.

Tali: 00:00:09

Hi.

Tali: 00:00:10

Welcome, Ella to Orange Chatter.

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I am so happy to be chatting with you.

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I'm gonna jump right into my typical first question for all my guests.

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How did you hear about Bitcoin and and when?

Ella: 00:00:23

Sounds great.

Ella: 00:00:23

Well, first, Tali, thank you so much for having me.

Ella: 00:00:25

I first learned about Bitcoin when I was, I think it was either the

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end of my junior year or beginning of my senior year of high school.

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So that was 2020, 2021.

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And I just learned about blockchain.

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I didn't know what Bitcoin was, at first.

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I was taking a class on blockchain in my high school and then, um, I

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eventually found the Gary Gensler on MIT OpenCourseWare on blockchain and money.

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And so, you know, I learned about, I had to do presentations on Cardano and

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Ethereum, and of course, Bitcoin was in there as well, but I, I didn't, I

Ella: 00:01:04

didn't understand or appreciate Bitcoin for what it was, which I, I think is a

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good thing, because then I now really understand and appreciate Bitcoin.

Ella: 00:01:13

Um, so yeah, I was just learning about it, and I was also starting my first

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job, where I got a real paycheck.

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And so my parents sat down with me and said, okay, you know,

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Ella, you should think about saving for, you know, the future.

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You know, this is your money, but we wanna make sure you can take care of yourself.

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So let's set up a brokerage account.

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Let's set up a Roth IRA.

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And I said, okay, great.

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And then, you know, what am I going to invest in?

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And I was learning about blockchain, my mom was as well, and we kind of came to

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the question of how do we buy blockchain?

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And then, you know, bought Ethereum, Cardano Bitcoin, and then you

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just learn more about Bitcoin and you fall down the rabbit hole.

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And now Bitcoin only.

Tali: 00:02:02

So you bought Ethereum, Cardano, and Bitcoin.

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Why did you eventually only end in Bitcoin?

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Were you reading up a lot, or were you just watching the prize rise and fall?

Ella: 00:02:16

Yes.

Ella: 00:02:16

Um, and it's funny cuz I, I still have the scratch paper when I was trying

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to decide how much I was going to allocate to Bitcoin versus the others.

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And sadly it was not majority Bitcoin.

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But I, it wasn't price.

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I actually bought Bitcoin at the, I bought Bitcoin at the all time high.

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I looked back and I still proudly hodl that, never sold it.

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So when it crashed, or not crashed, but when it significantly declined

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in price, I didn't go and sell it and say, okay, I'm gonna buy more Ethereum.

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So, it was never really price for me.

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It was just learning about Bitcoin.

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Reading, you know, all the, the typical books, "Bitcoin Standard", listening to

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podcasts, and then, I think the big moment was going to the Oslo Freedom Forum and

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really seeing the values that Bitcoin is aligned with, what it does for humanity.

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That, that, that aspect of Bitcoin I, I think is what really kind of captured me.

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So not money, but of course how it...

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the effects of sound money, how it's changing our time preferences, and

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we can talk about that more also, but it was the human aspect and just the

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values of Bitcoin versus fiat, um, the dollar, or other cryptocurrencies.

Tali: 00:03:37

Okay, so the human aspect and the freedom aspect, can you expand a

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little bit more with maybe specific examples that you remember that you

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read that made a difference for you?

Ella: 00:03:46

Um, yes.

Ella: 00:03:48

So I, we, my mom and I both went to the Oslo Freedom Forum last summer, and

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we really went for the Bitcoin track.

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But now looking back, we both said it was everything else that was happening

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in that space that we were really so grateful that we went, because, you

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know, embarrassed to admit, but I really had no idea what was happening

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in many other parts of the world.

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Um, I had studied abroad in China, so I knew the situation with Uyghurs, and

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I knew some of what they discussed at the conference, but I had no idea about

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the Belarusian activists using Bitcoin to fund their political campaigns

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or just, I mean, um, in, I think it was Costa Rica, it was happening.

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Also Venezuela, just...

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el Salvador.

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All the places where they don't have sound money, where they don't

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have access to the financial system.

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Only two thirds of the world is banked.

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So I kind of think about our world is operating at, you

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know, max two thirds capacity.

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We're missing out on a whole third of people.

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So I hope those are some specific examples for you.

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But though...

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all of those stories that we heard over the course of the, the time,

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there's really what spoke to us.

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So what did you do differently when you came back from that?

Ella: 00:05:10

It's, I wish I, I journaled maybe, and so that I could really

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understand what I did differently.

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But in terms of how I want to move forward in my own life, I was very

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down the rabbit hole of AI and ethics, and how do we code ethics into AI?

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So when I, I studied abroad in China.

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And when I went, I did not know any Chinese.

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I just accepted that I didn't know anything and that I would

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learn it when I was there.

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And so when I was learning the language, um, some of the characters, our teachers

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taught us that they literally kind of code ethics into the language.

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And so I was curious if you could do the same thing with

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AI, if you could code and...

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ethically into computer language.

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And I now think maybe that's not possible.

Ella: 00:06:00

But that's really what I wanted to focus on.

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And now I've switched much more over to Bitcoin.

Ella: 00:06:07

How do I...

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I've taken so much from Bitcoin, all the learning...

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how do I now start giving, how do I now start, um, focusing my

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energy and my time on Bitcoin?

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So I think just in the direction that my life goes, it's changed,

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um, since the Oslo Freedom Forum.

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And then, Bitcoin itself...

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you know, I, this is a quote from Erik Cason, but he said "kind of the greatest

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wealth that you get from Bitcoin, it's not the monetary, um, value.

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It's just the transformation of self and the knowledge that you acquire."

Ella: 00:06:43

So, I've never had social media, I've never kind of been in that

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world, but I think Bitcoin just makes you hyper aware and focused

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of how you spend your time, what you consume, where you put your energy.

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And so, just from a sense of self, I think, um, has grown and

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transformed because of Bitcoin.

Ella: 00:07:04

Um, So kind of life path and then on the daily basis has changed a lot.

Tali: 00:07:09

So you are a recent high school grad then, if you were a junior...

Tali: 00:07:15

or a junior in 2021?

Ella: 00:07:18

Um, no.

Ella: 00:07:18

I was a senior in 2021.

Ella: 00:07:20

Um, but yes, I'll be a junior now in college.

Tali: 00:07:23

In college, okay.

Tali: 00:07:24

So you've never been on social media except for Twitter.

Ella: 00:07:27

Yes, it's the, it's the news source that's...

Ella: 00:07:30

and Noster now also, but yeah.

Tali: 00:07:32

Right.

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Um, but I think what you said really popped, jumped out at me, which

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is that it makes you very aware of how you're consuming your time.

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And I think that is a very, very big challenge for kids.

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I call you kids.

Tali: 00:07:48

Sorry.

Tali: 00:07:49

Everybody...

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all young people are kids to me.

Tali: 00:07:51

Um, but, because my kids...

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you're about the same age as my kids.

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So, it is such a huge challenge for them to separate themselves from their

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phone, even with the best intentions.

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And so I'm just curious...

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it's gonna be a hard sell to people your age when you say, watch

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how you are consuming your time.

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Especially with just mindlessly scrolling through YouTube shorts and TikTok videos

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and losing two, two hours at a time that they're never going to get back.

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So how do you address that with them?

Ella: 00:08:25

Yeah.

Ella: 00:08:25

So, um, and this maybe I'll, I'll touch on the low versus high time

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preference here, because I, I think it, it kind of, um, fits in right here.

Ella: 00:08:33

But the whole concept of Bitcoin, um, credit to...

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for this is that Bitcoin makes you low time preference.

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So you, you have sound money and so you're, you know that in the future,

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your money will hold its value or increase in value, and so you're more

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inclined to cooperate or be peaceful or think positively about your future.

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Whereas right now, we live in a much more high time preference society, where we

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don't expect our money to hold its value.

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In fact, we know it won't.

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That's why we invest in stocks.

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And oh, what, what should we save our money in?

Ella: 00:09:13

Um, we're less inclined to cooperate, think positively about the future.

Ella: 00:09:18

Um, so that's the society we live in now.

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And then if you think about, um, Google, you know, it tells us how many

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milliseconds it took to get our response.

Ella: 00:09:28

Um, social media, TikTok, Snapchat, everything is just instant.

Ella: 00:09:32

Um, there's no sense of delayed gratification there...

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which Bitcoin is all about the long-term gratification.

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So I think it's hard, the fact that society's not helping us.

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All of the platforms that we are on, on a daily basis, are high time preference,

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they're not low time preference focused.

Ella: 00:09:54

Um, but I give a lot of credit to Gen Z because I, I do...

Ella: 00:09:58

I've seen that a lot of my friends, they've been on social media, um,

Ella: 00:10:04

but now they've, they honestly, a lot of them are getting off of

Ella: 00:10:08

it or they're just not using it.

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And so that's been a very interesting shift.

Ella: 00:10:12

Um, 'cause when I was younger, you know, people would text if they had a

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homework question or anything like that.

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And I, I got a phone much later compared to other friends, which...

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very happy about not complaining about it.

Ella: 00:10:27

Um, the people would email me.

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And so, everything has just changed, I think, within Gen Z...

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or it's changing, um, slowly.

Ella: 00:10:37

So, I'm not entirely sure how to address it, I guess is the short answer.

Ella: 00:10:42

Um, but I think it's happening somewhat naturally.

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People are just realizing, um, and once enough people in your circle do it, your

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behaviors are more likely to change.

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So, I wish I had a better answer for you on how to address it.

Ella: 00:10:59

Um, And maybe that's something for me to work on and, and figure out.

Tali: 00:11:04

Yeah.

Tali: 00:11:04

Um, I definitely see an awakening happening.

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I just, it's, it's tough.

Tali: 00:11:11

It's tough.

Tali: 00:11:12

Thank you for listening.

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Did you hear anything in our conversation today that you resonated with?

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Were you able to identify with some of the feelings that Ella had?

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If so, I would love to hear from you.

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Please send your questions or comments to my email, Tali@orange hatter.com.

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I would love to hear from you.

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Come back tomorrow and hear the rest of our conversation.

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Thank you.

Tali: 00:11:38

See you soon.