JB - "When people ask me about Bitcoin, I'm just like, tell me a better idea."

JB: 00:00:03

I think maybe another time in my life I may have brushed Bitcoin off,

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but it was very easy for me to accept

Bitcoin because I'm familiar with big

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systems not working on a really large

scale and that can be hard to come to

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terms with and really disillusioning.

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Tali: Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Before we dive into my conversation

with our guest today, I want to share

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with you a very exciting project,

the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat.

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The mission of this retreat is to create

a nurturing sanctuary where women in the

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Bitcoin space can connect with each other,

recharge batteries, find grounding, and

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form deep friendships so that you don't

feel so isolated where you are sharing

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the potential of Bitcoin with the world

while keeping an eye on the fiat system.

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This retreat is going to

be absolutely amazing.

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I am partnering with the

Yucatan Project in Mexico.

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: 00:00:58

The details will be rolled

out later this week.

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Keep an eye out on Twitter

at Orange Hatter Pod.

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: 00:01:05

I'll give out more information

as they are finalized.

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Spaces are very limited, and

they're going to fill up fast.

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So sign up for it when the registration

and I will see you in Mexico.

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And now we're going to.

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Continue with our podcast.

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Here is my conversation with

our wonderful guests today.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter JB.

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It's so wonderful to have you here.

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Thank you for joining us and

sharing your Bitcoin story.

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JB: thank you for having me.

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It's really excited to talk to you because

I just just recently saw you in person.

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So it's very familiar coming

back after grassroots.

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Tali: Yeah, I'm so glad we got

to meet each other in person.

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Get to know each other.

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better.

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And now I get to share your

story with our audience.

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So very excited.

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Let's start by just telling us a

little bit about your background.

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JB: So, right now I work

as a physician assistant.

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, I work in a local

hospital, small hospital.

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My, sub specialty is in psychiatry,

which is, , consult liaison psychiatry,

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and we, we work a lot with people

who, , are hospitalized on the medical

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floors or maybe coming for triage in

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the ER.

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Tali: you were sharing some feelings

about your professional experiences,

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even before you came across Bitcoin.

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Would you mind sharing

a little bit about that?

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JB: Yes, , so I worked at another

hospital in, um, I've worked

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various jobs over the past years.

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, the longest thing in psychiatry and, a

few, several years ago, I saw some folks

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and coworkers have adverse effects to

some of the things that are required

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to work in the medical industry.

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And I was really looking into

nutrition and more holistic ways

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to try and help my patients.

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I felt like I kind of maxed out what

I could do with medications and I was

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reading a lot about nutrition, a lot about

functional medicine and then kind of.

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I had some experiences where I saw

some folks have some adverse effects

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that should have really been minor

and statistically, I probably never

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should have seen if the stats were

right on those adverse events.

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And so that got me really curious

and looking closer at some things

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and traditional Western medicine.

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And I think, I just realized that

there is a lot more that can be done.

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I think from a lifestyle food

approach, we don't get much

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nutrition in medical school.

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I was really kind of naive about that.

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, and I think there's, I think we're waking

up to, , there's a lot that we don't know

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that we don't know, , in Western medicine

that maybe other disciplines kind of have

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the jump on us in terms of nutrition and.

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And that sort of thing.

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, but also the people I work

with are really smart.

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They're very intelligent and well read.

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, and so it was kind of this moment of

disillusionment where it was like, how can

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such a big industry like this be missing

some of these things that are so simple?

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, and I think.

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That led me to look further at, where the

funding comes from , in the medical world.

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And, , , potential conflicts of

interest in terms of our education,

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who, who funds our journals

and, and those types of things.

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And, um, I think the statement I was

making to you earlier is that , trying

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to understand how that happened on that

scale, , and how maybe we've overlooked

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some things like diet and lifestyle,

, really primed me, , to maybe accept.

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That there's issues like that things

going on on a scale , in our government

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and our, our banking industry.

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, and so.

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When I learned more about Bitcoin, and

when I paid more attention to Bitcoin,

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it was very, I think, maybe another

time in my life, I I may have brushed

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Bitcoin off, but it was very easy

for me to accept Bitcoin because I'm

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familiar with big systems, not working

on a really large scale, and that can

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be hard to come to terms with, and, and

really, , disillusioning, or, cause

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a lot of disillusionment if you have

been living in another larger market.

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or making other assumptions.

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Tali: So , when you started exploring

things like nutrition, diet,

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JB: That's a great question.

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Initially.

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, I think I've always been

a detail oriented person.

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I think people always advise

me not to overthink things.

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So people are kind of accustomed

to me going down rabbit holes, you

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know, and that's why I work on a

medical service or work with the

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medical services like I do now.

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I enjoy that.

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Uh, you know, for me, it was

more of a personal experience.

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I was, uh, reading about

different nutritional protocols.

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, the Walsh protocol is one.

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I really, I wound up doing

his conferences and CME.

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I really enjoyed that.

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And so what was happening for

me was I was eating better.

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I was cutting some things out of my diet.

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I was supplementing a few things

like minerals and B vitamins and

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just really seeing this amazing

change in my short term memory.

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, and that was helping out my anxiety.

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I probably was the person that

you could Spin in the ADHD anxiety

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categories and that just really

helped it transform for me.

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and so, you know, everything we do in

western medicine is evidence-based,

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and you have to be really careful

about doing anything that there

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isn't good published literature for.

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But I was trying to show up at

work in my own way and be like,

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wow, this is really working for me.

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And I've, cut out all medication and I'm

sleeping better and I'm dreaming better.

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And, you know, honestly.

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People were like, oh, that's great.

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But when I tried to really be more

specific about what was happening , and

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direct people towards books or things

like that, nobody, nobody believed me, you

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know, they just kind of had me on the head

and I felt like, gosh, I'm really feel

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like I'm shouting this from the rooftops.

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Like, this could be really great

and I think that I wonder if maybe

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there's some part of , our training

in Western medicine that sort of

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leads us to dismiss the power that.

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Just those simple changes can have.

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It was not, I don't want to say it

wasn't, well received in that sense,

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but I think it was just more dismissed.

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I think people thought it was really

overstating the benefits that I

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was getting and also I think kind

of the assumption that like, if

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that was that great, we would have

figured it out by now, you know,

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it would be in all the journals.

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It would be in all the literature.

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, and so that.

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I think that's a really long explanation.

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and I think everybody has to come

to their own conclusions to why

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that's maybe that, you know, we

don't have an emphasis as much.

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I think it's starting to happen.

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We're seeing a big push and integrative

and functional medicine and there's

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a lot of people in that that have

a prescribers license or a medical

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license that are adding that into their

practice and taking a closer look at it.

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Tali: Were you allowed to talk about it

with your patients or were you forced

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to keep that information to yourself

because the association that you're part

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of maybe doesn't support that or condone

the sharing of outside information

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JB: Um, you know, I think there was

there were certainly we have we have

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students a lot in the hospital or

is that so we would do literature

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reviews and look at the quality of

data for things like simple things like

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supplementing magnesium or things like

that and it's just not , sometimes this

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may have changed several years ago.

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It's not as robust as say, like a

cardiology study or something where.

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You can scale that and, and really look

at something that's a one or a zero.

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It's hard sometimes in

psychiatry to get hard figures.

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So I think people did entertain

the idea of doing a literature

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review, , but there's not always

an abundance of literature in the

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traditional journals out there.

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That's robust.

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That really has a high end and is

really done well, , and so, you

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know, somebody could always make

the case that, oh, there's not,

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there's not good evidence for that.

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It's very easy to say that and be right.

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, and so I think people have to

kind of ask the question, well,

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why isn't there good evidence?

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Why aren't we doing more robust studies?

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And I think that's really where, you

know, I leave it up to everybody to

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kind of decide, , and do their own,

you know, such an overused phrase, but

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do their own research on that 1, and

kind of that's just food for thought,

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but I think if, , you know, having

that conversation with people about.

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Thank you.

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Really simple things like cutting out

sugar and caffeine in their diet and

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just really practical things that I

think anybody Can get behind definitely

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was something that I became more had

a lot more conviction about But as far

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as really specific protocols, I did

actually pay to fly one doctor with

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me To the conference I want to say

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and I can't remember he he wound up I

think eventually go out into private

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practice and do that in private practice

Last that I heard, but we haven't

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we haven't been keeping up together.

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Tali: the reason I ask is because I had

a friend who was a pediatrician and in

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order to practice, you have to be a part

of the American Pediatric Association.

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And I remember meeting up with

her when my oldest daughter was

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four months old, and she said

Tali , the back of her head is flat.

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And I said, okay, I don't, you

know, I don't know what shape.

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I mean, it just looked like a head to me.

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But she said, she said,

Tali, her head is flat.

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You need to sleep her on the side.

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And I said, but my pediatrician

emphatically told me from day one

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that I need to sleep her on her back.

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And she said, she's restricted to follow

the American Pediatric Association.

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She could not tell her patients who were

coming into her practice with babies with

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a flathead to sleep them on their side.

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But she said, I'm telling you right

now, my own children, they sleep on

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their side because If they sleep on

their back, their head will be flat.

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And then you see these kids being pushed

around strollers wearing those helmet

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JB: Yeah,

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Tali: trying to reshape the head.

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JB: yeah,

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Tali: So she said her hands are tied.

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She can't tell her patients what

she's doing herself with their kids

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because she would get in trouble

and she would lose her license.

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But she said in private, I am telling you,

you need to sleep your baby on the side.

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So I'm just wondering if

there's something like that in.

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Your specific area that prevented

you from sharing outside information,

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about using nutrition or diet to

improve psychiatric condition.

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I'm just trying to understand if there

are parallels that we can be drawn here.

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JB: I think so, I think the general

answer to that question is yes, I

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think there is some testing you can

do to sometimes support nutritional.

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Interventions, , it's hard because

the protocols that are in the,

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maybe, like, the private arena, , the

standard lab that you're using, they

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may use 1 reference range is normal.

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And then your protocol may say, okay,

a different number is not normal.

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And, you know, your hospital lab is

going to call it as they, as they see it.

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And so.

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, yeah, I think especially as a, as a

physician assistant, I'm practicing

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under someone else's license.

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I'm, I have a supervising physician

and so I won't step outside of

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what they're comfortable with.

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And I was, I was fortunate at the time

to have actually worked with a physician

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who had owned a, like a supplement

store and had been in the integrative

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arena at another point in his life.

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So he was really accepting, , of my

views, but I think clinically we have

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to practice evidence based medicine

and, , you know, there is a downside to

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supplements and things like that too.

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They are powerful.

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And so people can also not tolerate them.

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, and so I certainly didn't want

to give someone something that.

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Okay.

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You know, can have untoward consequences

and then have them be even more anxious or

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feel worse and then leave the hospital and

then not have someone to follow up with.

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So I would say at the time I

treaded it very lightly with that.

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, and definitely stay within reason of

what's in the published literature

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and what's accepted as general.

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You know, general medical recommendations.

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I was and still am very aggressive

about checking for things like B12

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deficiency, things that are really

generally accepted to cause psychiatric

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illness and can be great mimicers and

look like, look like different things.

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And so I think at work, people know

if they're consulting and they just

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like, go ahead and order the B12

level, they're like, Oh, JB, we're just

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gonna put this order in now because

she's going to come do it if we don't.

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And so that's great.

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I'm glad to have that influence.

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Thank you.

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, and so I go for kind of the low hanging

fruit on things like that, and then just

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talk to people about generally accepted

diet and lifestyle and cutting out things

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that maybe could be undermining them,

especially in terms of anxiety and things

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like caffeine and that sort of stuff.

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Tali: Cool.

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Okay, so now let's talk Bitcoin.

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JB: Yeah.

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Tali: first hear about Bitcoin?

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JB: Oh man, this is, this is, so my

Bitcoin story is a little embarrassing.

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I, I heard about Bitcoin way back

when I had friends in college

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that were mining Bitcoin when

it was, , fractions of a penny.

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, and so I, but I really did not understand

what it was and they mentioned it in

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passing and I was like, oh, that's cool.

251

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My super computer nerd friends are

doing this interesting thing and they

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sort of framed it as like, if you.

253

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if you're in another

country, maybe it's unsafe.

254

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You can have this electronic

wallet and no people can't rob you.

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And I kind of sort of understood it.

256

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And I was like, well, that's cool.

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And maybe, maybe one day they'll be able

to use dollars, you know, and it had no

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clue, just totally checked out pre med

student, not really into politics, not

259

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really into banking, econ, finance, I

liked history, but didn't really know

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it, , from that standpoint and then,

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You know, I had, I had done a

fellowship in psychiatry at one point.

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, and I had tried to check out and

do something totally different,

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which was trade stocks.

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So I knew a little bit

about trading stocks.

265

: 00:14:26

And then when I got further along

in my career, I started looking at

266

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retirement in the meantime, the 2017.

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Run had happened.

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And, , so I had heard about that just by

way of knowing people that had been early

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miners and, , it was on my radar then.

270

: 00:14:41

I still didn't realize it was something

that I could buy on an exchange.

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I didn't know anything about that.

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: 00:14:46

And then, but I did

want to retire someday.

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And I was recognizing that inflation

was taking a toll on my life, but just

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didn't really have the words for it.

275

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And I kind of did the

whole Dave Ramsey thing.

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I did the whole, you know, learn

about index fund investing.

277

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And that was cool, but it just

didn't seem like it was going

278

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to get me where I wanted to go.

279

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and so then I started looking at.

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: 00:15:09

Different things like managing my own

retirement portfolios, all the things

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they tell you not to do and looking at

different stocks and following the market.

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And I think two things that

happened, one is, , I was reading

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a book on how the market moves

and how volume moves the market.

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: 00:15:25

And there was a book that was about who

moves the world it was about insider

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: 00:15:31

trading, I guess you could say, or

presumed insider trading in the market and

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how they were able to witness that and,

what markets look like before they crash.

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: 00:15:40

And I just thought that

was absolutely fascinating.

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: 00:15:43

And then separately, one of the stock

picker guys that I was following was

289

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really talking about Bitcoin a lot.

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: 00:15:49

And so it's interesting

because traders get a lot of.

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People don't like traders in general,

or they say, , somebody wins the

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trade, you know, there's a losing side,

but, , traders are interesting people.

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and I think it's, it's in a

way, it's like a sport to them.

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They really train for it.

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You really have to be aware in

your mind of what you're doing.

296

: 00:16:06

So you don't sabotage yourself.

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: 00:16:08

Um, and they read a lot about

the fundamentals of companies and

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they certainly know about things.

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: 00:16:13

Like potential insider trading or

corruption in the stock market.

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: 00:16:16

So, , finally I had read about

Bitcoin and I came to the Bitcoin

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standard and I read that and then I

read the creature from Jekyll Island.

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, and I had actually joined the

trading room, the options trading

303

: 00:16:29

room and seen firsthand, , big block

trades, , essentially move the market.

304

: 00:16:34

And.

305

: 00:16:34

I had seen them trade early before events.

306

: 00:16:37

I had bought, Tesla, I'm going to

say in, in: 2014

307

: 00:16:43

didn't know what I was doing.

308

: 00:16:43

I mean, I want to be clear the whole time.

309

: 00:16:45

I had no clue what I was doing.

310

: 00:16:47

Um, and that's probably still true to

some degree, but, you know, Tesla had,

311

: 00:16:52

had Stock split five times and gone up.

312

: 00:16:56

you know, it would have been an insane

ROI had I held on to it, but you know, Jim

313

: 00:16:59

Kramer had really gotten after Tesla and

kind of dogged it out on the television.

314

: 00:17:05

And I was up, you know, like, I think my

ROI was like, 300 percent or something.

315

: 00:17:09

And so I thought, Oh, it's Tesla.

316

: 00:17:11

They're ruined.

317

: 00:17:11

I'm you know, sell my stock or whatever.

318

: 00:17:14

And then of course, we all know

what happened after that, , split

319

: 00:17:17

five times and rallied to almost

a thousand dollars a share.

320

: 00:17:20

Yeah.

321

: 00:17:20

And so I had become aware, , that

certain people hold the view that.

322

: 00:17:25

Influencers in the market can sometimes

be used to create exit liquidity for

323

: 00:17:30

big hedge funds or big institutions.

324

: 00:17:33

And I had become aware that

you can't always believe what

325

: 00:17:36

you see on on television.

326

: 00:17:39

And so I was so curious, , and this

now was COVID had started to happen.

327

: 00:17:45

And so the lockdowns were happening

and I had more free time on my hands.

328

: 00:17:48

And so I was in and around

these options trading room.

329

: 00:17:52

I was not trading options.

330

: 00:17:53

I'm not that good of a trader I have

no business going anywhere near them

331

: 00:17:57

But I could actually see in real time

what was happening and and watch the

332

: 00:18:01

news cycles And then see the trades

Happening big block trades happening.

333

: 00:18:06

And so that was again really kind of a

period of disillusionment and then at

334

: 00:18:11

the same time , in that same vein during

COVID, Jack Mallers was launching Chivo

335

: 00:18:15

Wallet in El Salvador and, , doing all

these interesting and wonderful things.

336

: 00:18:20

And so COVID was a really dark,

dark time for a lot of people.

337

: 00:18:25

It was difficult working in the

hospital and, it was difficult accepting

338

: 00:18:29

that maybe things weren't the way

I thought they were in the world.

339

: 00:18:32

And.

340

: 00:18:33

Bitcoin was this really cool, , area

of light to focus on where it's

341

: 00:18:38

like, Hey, maybe there's a way

out of these inflationary cycles.

342

: 00:18:42

, , so I started going to our local meetups.

343

: 00:18:44

And I met our organizer there

that organizes our local meetup.

344

: 00:18:47

I now help him co organize, but really

the creature from Jekyll Island, you

345

: 00:18:52

know, I went upstairs one day and

read an insane amount of that book.

346

: 00:18:56

I still, I don't think I've actually

finished it, but the majority of

347

: 00:18:59

that book and it just came downstairs

a completely different person.

348

: 00:19:04

I don't know.

349

: 00:19:04

Have you read that?

350

: 00:19:05

You have.

351

: 00:19:06

Okay.

352

: 00:19:06

So you know what I'm talking about.

353

: 00:19:08

Tali: I have not.

354

: 00:19:09

Scott read it.

355

: 00:19:10

And every night he would rant about

356

: 00:19:15

JB: Yes.

357

: 00:19:16

Tali: so I feel like I read

it, even though I didn't.

358

: 00:19:20

Now I'm just, I don't

want to be depressed.

359

: 00:19:22

You know, it's a, it's

360

: 00:19:23

JB: Right,

361

: 00:19:23

Tali: there when you start looking

at our monetary system, even with

362

: 00:19:27

Bitcoin, it just gets very depressing.

363

: 00:19:29

You just start to question human

nature, you start to question

364

: 00:19:33

intentions, because I tend to like

To think that most people are good.

365

: 00:19:37

, most people want to do the right thing.

366

: 00:19:40

And when you read books like

that, you're just like, really?

367

: 00:19:43

Seriously?

368

: 00:19:44

Yeah.

369

: 00:19:46

JB: So needless to say I came downstairs

a completely different person and

370

: 00:19:51

, I'm from the South, bless, bless my

poor ex partner's heart at the time.

371

: 00:19:56

He was just like, what

happened to my girlfriend?

372

: 00:19:59

You know, I really do

have sympathy for him.

373

: 00:20:02

But I think probably, I'd love

to hear Scott, I'd love to

374

: 00:20:06

hear Scott's side of this too.

375

: 00:20:08

, because we had to have a safe word in the

house in case I talked about Bitcoin too

376

: 00:20:12

much and finally he was like, Oh my gosh,

can we please talk about something else?

377

: 00:20:17

And so I got like a sweatshirt

that said freedom on it.

378

: 00:20:20

And then the O was a Bitcoin, of course.

379

: 00:20:22

And then once a week I could go

out to my meetup and we were all

380

: 00:20:26

there leaning on each other.

381

: 00:20:28

And, everybody was having

the same experience.

382

: 00:20:30

It was like, I just need to get

out of the house and go talk

383

: 00:20:32

about Bitcoin with my friends.

384

: 00:20:34

And then, fast forward now, I think

we're almost 2 years that , we initially

385

: 00:20:38

were meeting weekly because we all

really needed that during covid.

386

: 00:20:41

And then when the, when life resumed,

, and things have opened back up, we

387

: 00:20:45

went to bi- weekly, but then still with

informal meetings on our week off because.

388

: 00:20:49

Yeah.

389

: 00:20:50

, there's probably we don't have a

really robust Bitcoin theme like

390

: 00:20:53

Austin often or Nashville do here.

391

: 00:20:55

There's people that are interested.

392

: 00:20:56

, but it's a small community.

393

: 00:20:58

And so we really flock to each other.

394

: 00:21:00

Anytime we get the chance, no one else in

our personal lives wants to hear about it.

395

: 00:21:05

Tali: when Scott really started to

pay attention to Bitcoin, he started.

396

: 00:21:09

listening to all kinds of podcasts.

397

: 00:21:10

He was reading book after book after book.

398

: 00:21:13

And he was sending me like three

podcasts a day to say, Hey,

399

: 00:21:17

you need to listen to this.

400

: 00:21:18

And oh, by the way, here's a book and

here are two more and there are three

401

: 00:21:22

more and just like throwing stuff at me.

402

: 00:21:24

. So our safe word is the hand,

you know, like if I put up the

403

: 00:21:28

hand, that's too much, you know?

404

: 00:21:32

Yeah.

405

: 00:21:32

And, uh, but.

406

: 00:21:34

But it took him two years.

407

: 00:21:35

It took him two years before he could

convince me that Bitcoin was real.

408

: 00:21:40

And then of course, when I started

going down the rabbit hole, I

409

: 00:21:42

was like, why didn't you grab me

410

: 00:21:45

JB: Right.

411

: 00:21:45

Right.

412

: 00:21:45

Tali: and sit me down, you know,

but I guess I wasn't ready,

413

: 00:21:50

but he did try really hard.

414

: 00:21:51

And kind of like what you're

saying, we just didn't have.

415

: 00:21:55

Anybody in our personal life who

we could go to to ask questions.

416

: 00:21:59

I think that would have made

a huge difference for me

417

: 00:22:01

personally, but we had nobody.

418

: 00:22:03

It was all, all of our

learning was from a distance.

419

: 00:22:07

There was no Bitcoin meetup here.

420

: 00:22:09

That was

421

: 00:22:09

JB: You started your meetup, right?

422

: 00:22:11

That's right.

423

: 00:22:12

Tali: Yeah, we started it.

424

: 00:22:13

Our group is very small.

425

: 00:22:14

We are still struggling

to find local Bitcoiners.

426

: 00:22:18

I would say almost every single

person who's in our meetup

427

: 00:22:21

right now, we met in Nashville.

428

: 00:22:25

We would be in Nashville, milling around

and we were introducing, , where we're

429

: 00:22:29

from and we'll say we're from Louisville.

430

: 00:22:32

They're like, no way.

431

: 00:22:32

We're from Louisville.

432

: 00:22:33

What?

433

: 00:22:34

Where are you?

434

: 00:22:35

And then we'll find out

that we're really close.

435

: 00:22:37

And then when we started the meetup,

we were able to get together, but I

436

: 00:22:41

think I met almost every single person,

except for one person Bitcoin Park.

437

: 00:22:45

JB: yeah.

438

: 00:22:46

I love Bitcoin Park.

439

: 00:22:47

And that was a huge, that was a huge,

turning point for me is being there

440

: 00:22:52

and actually meeting the people that

are working in the Bitcoin space and

441

: 00:22:55

just seeing that really the content

of their character., it's amazing.

442

: 00:22:59

being around other Bitcoiners and

particularly at our grassroots where

443

: 00:23:03

the meetup organizers meet in that

Bitcoin park with Rod and Matt and now

444

: 00:23:06

Harry, that is really a special place.

445

: 00:23:09

And, coming with my interest in health

and nutrition and looking at Western

446

: 00:23:14

medicine through a different lens.

447

: 00:23:16

When I got there, everybody

else was already doing that.

448

: 00:23:19

They were like, yeah,

okay, yeah, we eat healthy.

449

: 00:23:20

And I was like, wow, these people

already, they know, this is this kind

450

: 00:23:23

of incorporated into their lifestyle.

451

: 00:23:25

And I think my favorite thing

about those people and often

452

: 00:23:29

the people that run meetups.

453

: 00:23:30

Every single person that I've met that

runs the meetup is big winners like to

454

: 00:23:33

know how things work Like they're going

to get to things on a very granular

455

: 00:23:37

Level and look like they're going

to go molecule deep and they want to

456

: 00:23:41

understand how it works from the ground

up And also just really well intentioned

457

: 00:23:46

people in the space And I think if

people are coming into the Bitcoin space

458

: 00:23:51

or have questions about Bitcoin Even if

they haven't bought any Bitcoin yet, I

459

: 00:23:55

think one of the best things you can do

is just start circulating in the local

460

: 00:23:59

meetups in the local communities and

just meet the people that are working,

461

: 00:24:03

, the developers that are working on the

projects or the people that are building

462

: 00:24:06

apps on lightning or, , doing things to

create a circular economy and just let.

463

: 00:24:13

Yourself be the judge of the

content of their character

464

: 00:24:15

and how you feel around them.

465

: 00:24:17

, I feel really good

around other Bitcoiners.

466

: 00:24:19

I can sit in the corner and not say

a word and just listen to, you know,

467

: 00:24:25

what other people saying in the, in

the room and be completely , content.

468

: 00:24:28

And, you know, there's people who

disagree in the Bitcoin community,

469

: 00:24:31

but they can handle that and they

can talk about that in a way that's

470

: 00:24:34

constructive and, give each other a

good ribbing and spicy conversation

471

: 00:24:38

and it's okay, and I think that.

472

: 00:24:40

, when people are speaking their truth

and living in their truth, they're not

473

: 00:24:43

threatened in a time when there's been

so much these past few years, that's

474

: 00:24:46

polarizing and so much that divisive,

it's really nice to be at conferences

475

: 00:24:51

and places around people where they can

have a civil disagreement and really

476

: 00:24:55

have constructive conversation about it

and you know that both sides are well

477

: 00:24:59

intentioned, they're trying to, build

something, , to support their communities

478

: 00:25:02

and help undo some of the damage of the

inflationary environment that we're in.

479

: 00:25:07

Tali: Yeah, definitely.

480

: 00:25:08

, okay.

481

: 00:25:09

So thinking back to those first few

months, let's say, , during COVID

482

: 00:25:13

when you were first really diving in

deep into, , what Bitcoin is and how

483

: 00:25:18

it works and everything, what was

your biggest question or the biggest

484

: 00:25:22

obstacle you had to get over to be

convinced that Bitcoin is real and is

485

: 00:25:28

something you should pay attention to?

486

: 00:25:29

JB: Ooh, that's a really good question.

487

: 00:25:32

Um,

488

: 00:25:33

I have to think on that.

489

: 00:25:34

I can tell you one that I still

struggle with right now is, Like I was

490

: 00:25:39

saying, stakeholders like to understand

things I think on a granular level.

491

: 00:25:42

I am not a developer.

492

: 00:25:44

I am not a technically enabled person.

493

: 00:25:47

, I can use a smartphone intuitively and

I can type pretty quickly, but that's

494

: 00:25:51

how all you're going to get out of me.

495

: 00:25:53

And so I think like when things

come up like with the ordinal or

496

: 00:25:57

there's network congestion and.

497

: 00:25:58

You know, in medicine, I

can go back to the books.

498

: 00:26:01

I can go back to gen chem.

499

: 00:26:02

I can read journal articles

and I have the, basic science

500

: 00:26:06

understanding . In Bitcoin.

501

: 00:26:07

I don't have that.

502

: 00:26:08

And so I have to look to other people

like our meetup organizer, Craig.

503

: 00:26:11

I have to look to the tech

people to translate for me.

504

: 00:26:14

What's happening?

505

: 00:26:15

, you know, the box size words.

506

: 00:26:16

I understood pretty well, but I

think understanding how lightning

507

: 00:26:20

network is going to scale and

looking at the hurdles that the.

508

: 00:26:24

Network it needs to overcome.

509

: 00:26:26

I think I'm intimidated by that,

because I can't look at the code or say,

510

: 00:26:30

okay, I understand this at this level.

511

: 00:26:32

And so I think trusting that those

problems and that what they're trying

512

: 00:26:38

to do to make Bitcoin more accessible

for daily use and uncomplicatable

513

: 00:26:42

to borrow a word, I think trusting

that, that that's real, that we can

514

: 00:26:47

do that and that those problems exist,

that they will be solved, I think is.

515

: 00:26:52

, I'm much more comfortable with now

that I've spent time around people

516

: 00:26:56

that code and do the developing

and I can see how they think and

517

: 00:27:00

have more discussions about that.

518

: 00:27:01

So, I think really.

519

: 00:27:04

For me, it was getting past the

fact that I don't understand

520

: 00:27:06

the technical level of it.

521

: 00:27:09

And I'm, I'm used to having a nuts and

bolts understanding of things that I.

522

: 00:27:13

Invest into that amount.

523

: 00:27:16

Or I thought I did, maybe I don't know.

524

: 00:27:18

I mean, that's that's the

whole whole gist of it.

525

: 00:27:21

But at least at work in my professional

space, when I make really big life

526

: 00:27:25

changing decisions, potentially for

me or my patients, I feel like I'm

527

: 00:27:29

doing it from pretty solid ground.

528

: 00:27:31

But the Bitcoin network's

been up for 14 years now.

529

: 00:27:34

, and so I think that in and of

itself is a testament as we see

530

: 00:27:38

other kind of challengers in

the crypto space come and go.

531

: 00:27:41

that does a lot.

532

: 00:27:43

Tali: Yeah, I definitely agree

with you about having to rely

533

: 00:27:46

on somebody else to translate.

534

: 00:27:48

The technology or the, , the debates for

you so , like you said, there are some

535

: 00:27:53

things in life that we feel like we have

a pretty solid understanding and even

536

: 00:27:57

if somebody introduces a new idea, we

have something to go on to evaluate it,

537

: 00:28:02

whereas in Bitcoin space, it's so foreign

and like you said, if you go to, if you

538

: 00:28:07

spend time with developers, actually,

I have been so impressed when I go to

539

: 00:28:11

the BitDev meetings, how Long term,

they have to look down like they have

540

: 00:28:15

to look 10, 20, 30 steps down the road

and have philosophical discussions and

541

: 00:28:22

debates to code what they're coding now.

542

: 00:28:26

So these are very intentional

people very smart, like you

543

: 00:28:30

said, and nobody can predict the

future, but they do their best.

544

: 00:28:34

And that's why those discussions where

they disagree are so, so valuable, because

545

: 00:28:40

JB: Right.

546

: 00:28:40

Tali: if you disagree, that means you're

looking at it from different points of

547

: 00:28:43

view, and that's actually a richer and

better and more big picture way of looking

548

: 00:28:49

at solving a problem or a potential

problem, trying to predict what the

549

: 00:28:54

their code has to solve down the road.

550

: 00:28:56

I mean, that's a big job.

551

: 00:28:58

And the more All right.

552

: 00:29:00

time you spend with these people,

the more, just feeling their energy.

553

: 00:29:03

Like for me, feeling somebody's

energy in person is a big thing.

554

: 00:29:07

And, uh, you learn to trust that

they all have good intentions.

555

: 00:29:11

JB: Yeah, I hundred, a hundred

percent agree with that.

556

: 00:29:14

And I think, I have fallen

out of step with doing that.

557

: 00:29:16

Just I've switched jobs eventually and

have been working more and I haven't used

558

: 00:29:20

to drive to Nashville pretty much on a

monthly basis and was really keeping up

559

: 00:29:24

with the current events in the Bitcoin

community and just was switching jobs.

560

: 00:29:29

I haven't been doing that as much, but

definitely coming to both the Atlanta

561

: 00:29:34

conference, the tab conference, and

then, , grassroots is refreshing on that.

562

: 00:29:38

And given, you know, back my

conviction, not that it was lost, but

563

: 00:29:42

it was just kind of quiet for a bit.

564

: 00:29:44

I was like, oh, man.

565

: 00:29:45

I think Bitcoin has just become

so integrated into my life.

566

: 00:29:48

You know, when you're first into it,

you're kind of looking at the price and

567

: 00:29:51

you're talking about market cycles And

then you just kind of come to, as you

568

: 00:29:55

come to understand what it is and what

we're hoping it will do for us, you sort

569

: 00:30:00

of thought, I don't, I can't remember the

last time I checked the price of Bitcoin.

570

: 00:30:04

, I can't really remember the last time I

thought about another coin and people,

571

: 00:30:08

you know, will ask me about other coins.

572

: 00:30:09

I'm like I'm sorry.

573

: 00:30:09

I just really can't even tell you.

574

: 00:30:11

I don't even really have an opinion.

575

: 00:30:12

I don't follow any of that.

576

: 00:30:14

And it just sort of fades.

577

: 00:30:16

, , I think my entire thinking about Bitcoin

has shifted in the past two years.

578

: 00:30:20

And it's just sort of become

a almost way of life, but it's

579

: 00:30:23

just there in the background.

580

: 00:30:25

it's something that I, when

I came on this podcast, I was

581

: 00:30:27

like, what am I going to say?

582

: 00:30:28

That's not depressing.

583

: 00:30:30

I don't want to say a bunch of

depressing stuff and that that is

584

: 00:30:34

where I turn my attention at the end

of the day, like, when I want to reward

585

: 00:30:38

myself, or I want to take a break.

586

: 00:30:39

It's like, okay, let's

see what's going on.

587

: 00:30:41

What are people building?

588

: 00:30:43

What are the developers up to, ? Was

the spicy disagreement this week,

589

: 00:30:48

you know, , and I think that that

is definitely been, a ray of a ray

590

: 00:30:52

of light, in a time when things are

really uncertain in our country, , that

591

: 00:30:57

it provides a lot of consistency.

592

: 00:30:59

Tali: okay.

593

: 00:31:00

So you went down the Bitcoin

rabbit hole during COVID.

594

: 00:31:04

You've been in this space

fully committed now to Bitcoin

595

: 00:31:08

specifically for about two years.

596

: 00:31:11

So when you turn around and look

at the past two years, how do you

597

: 00:31:15

see your life has changed because

of your involvement in Bitcoin?

598

: 00:31:20

JB: Oh, my gosh, girl, I burned it down.

599

: 00:31:24

No, I'm just kidding.

600

: 00:31:25

, I think I, I look at things

very different politically.

601

: 00:31:29

I kind of always I'm sort of back

to where I started with, which

602

: 00:31:31

is like, I didn't really want

anything to do with politicians.

603

: 00:31:33

They always seem kind of off and weird

to me and I still have that conviction.

604

: 00:31:38

But I do pay attention more to what's

being said in the news and at least what

605

: 00:31:42

people are purporting your platform to be.

606

: 00:31:44

So I'm probably more of a

political person., so the question

607

: 00:31:47

is, how is my life different,

like, how has it shaped my life?

608

: 00:31:50

I definitely invest differently.

609

: 00:31:52

, I think I have found a financial

advisor that is Bitcoin friendly.

610

: 00:31:56

I have not been keeping up my

side of communication there.

611

: 00:32:00

I need to check back in with him.

612

: 00:32:02

, I did the whole thing.

613

: 00:32:03

I did the buy a whole coin, lose a

whole coin, trusting it to a friend.

614

: 00:32:07

You know, initially I was looking

at other coins because I didn't

615

: 00:32:10

understand what Bitcoin was.

616

: 00:32:12

Went through that whole thing.

617

: 00:32:13

So all the stories, had the old

car that you keep , don't, so you

618

: 00:32:17

don't have to have car payments

so you can buy more of a Bitcoin.

619

: 00:32:21

Every, every kind of stereotype.

620

: 00:32:22

I definitely have, have lived

that and, you know, had the big

621

: 00:32:26

financial loss and doing dumb things.

622

: 00:32:28

And so now I would say I use that a

lot more understanding that my dollars

623

: 00:32:32

later are going to be worthless.

624

: 00:32:33

So I finance things

where I might not have.

625

: 00:32:36

I was raised in a family where debt

was this really bad evil thing.

626

: 00:32:39

, I really gained a lot of insight

into, , scarcity mindset and having

627

: 00:32:44

that mindset around wealth and money.

628

: 00:32:46

That's definitely something that I

think is inherited in our family.

629

: 00:32:51

Really coming to terms with shame

around money or shame with having

630

: 00:32:54

something or having wealth.

631

: 00:32:56

That's been really interesting journey

that I don't think is over yet.

632

: 00:32:59

And just looking at longer term things.

633

: 00:33:02

So, like, I was talking with you

before about looking at something

634

: 00:33:06

like, , a car wash for definitely not

passive income, but income where that

635

: 00:33:10

can be, , a type of income that can

be generating, , cash flow, maybe,

636

: 00:33:15

like, while I'm working another job.

637

: 00:33:17

And so, , just looking at different

types of investments, And just, yeah, I

638

: 00:33:21

mean, just paying a lot more attention.

639

: 00:33:23

They have that thing.

640

: 00:33:24

There's people who understand economics

and then there's people who work work

641

: 00:33:27

for them, you know, if you don't.

642

: 00:33:29

And so I think my focus now is really

trying to catch up on understanding

643

: 00:33:34

economics and finance, but also

just feeling really a drift on,

644

: 00:33:38

How to invest with the Bitcoin

being part of, there's a lot of

645

: 00:33:42

people that just are like all

Bitcoin and like they own a house.

646

: 00:33:47

They are kind of set in certain

ways and they just go all Bitcoin.

647

: 00:33:50

I have friends that have pulled

their entire retirement out, cashed

648

: 00:33:54

it out and put it in Bitcoin.

649

: 00:33:55

It's definitely not financial advice

for me, but, , so I think trying to

650

: 00:34:00

figure out where that is for me in

terms of retirement And how, because

651

: 00:34:06

like you said, it's a very long

term, people have a very long term

652

: 00:34:10

outlook that are investing in Bitcoin.

653

: 00:34:12

And so, to, I don't think I was

very good at visualizing what I

654

: 00:34:16

wanted that to look like before.

655

: 00:34:19

So answering those questions

has become more concrete.

656

: 00:34:22

For me, for sure.

657

: 00:34:23

And then also I had some unpopular

beliefs during COVID, tend to take

658

: 00:34:29

off both sides, so I think for me,

it was a very lonely time, my family

659

: 00:34:35

and I don't see eye to eye on things

and we're always going to talk to

660

: 00:34:38

each other and be around each other.

661

: 00:34:40

, but just definitely.

662

: 00:34:41

I was an outlier in my work

environment, my home environment.

663

: 00:34:45

We had a personal tragedy

in my ex partner's family.

664

: 00:34:48

That really took a lot of our

time and was very stressful.

665

: 00:34:51

And we ultimately ended up separating.

666

: 00:34:53

And so there was kind of this void.

667

: 00:34:55

Where I was adrift from the community

I had been in before, and I was always

668

: 00:34:59

kind of this fringe health person that

people were like, oh, that's so cute.

669

: 00:35:03

And then suddenly I was this fringe

health person, and it was like,

670

: 00:35:07

wow, there's a lot of space here.

671

: 00:35:10

But I will say that that space is

being filled with things that I think

672

: 00:35:14

fit me a lot better as a person, and

I've come to know myself a lot better.

673

: 00:35:19

I think people found out who they were the

past couple years and what they're willing

674

: 00:35:22

to compromise on and what they're not.

675

: 00:35:24

And I have a lot of conviction, and

I don't think I've ever had that much

676

: 00:35:28

conviction about anything in my life.

677

: 00:35:30

, when people ask me about Bitcoin,

I'm just like, tell me a better idea.

678

: 00:35:34

, I don't have any better ideas, , and I

think some of the smartest people in

679

: 00:35:38

the world are working on Bitcoin right

now, in terms of the development, I

680

: 00:35:41

definitely try to get quiet and listen

when they're in the room talking and

681

: 00:35:45

learn as much as I can from them.

682

: 00:35:47

And I think Bitcoiners are the

type of people that if they saw

683

: 00:35:50

a better idea, they would say so.

684

: 00:35:52

Or they would entertain in

a discussion or a debate.

685

: 00:35:55

And so far in the past decade or

more, that really hasn't happened.

686

: 00:35:58

Tali: I want to circle back and ask

you a question about something you

687

: 00:36:02

just said that I find very fascinating.

688

: 00:36:04

You mentioned that your family

don't go into financing of any kind.

689

: 00:36:10

Did I catch that right?

690

: 00:36:11

Okay.

691

: 00:36:11

And then you also mentioned that you are

trying to reverse a scarcity mindset.

692

: 00:36:17

So I'm just wondering how you tie

those two things to Bitcoin and how

693

: 00:36:21

Bitcoin is helping specifically.

694

: 00:36:23

JB: yeah, that's a, , a

really good question.

695

: 00:36:25

So, yes, my parents, I love them dearly.

696

: 00:36:27

They're from a very hard working

community in upstate New York, and they

697

: 00:36:31

kind of have that, like, you're born,

you pay taxes, you die attitude and

698

: 00:36:35

your value really comes from your job.

699

: 00:36:37

and they definitely have that kind of

mindset, like, if you make money, or

700

: 00:36:41

if you earn a lot of money, you must

have taken something from someone.

701

: 00:36:45

so I think for me, there was a profound

sense of guilt, and this is why I say I

702

: 00:36:50

do have respect for traders, because if

you have any sort of subconscious thing,

703

: 00:36:54

or, , scarcity mindset, with that, it's

going to find you in your subconscious

704

: 00:37:00

when you're interacting with money on such

a direct level, and it, it came for me,

705

: 00:37:05

, if I made money trading, I felt guilty.

706

: 00:37:07

I felt like I had to give it back.

707

: 00:37:09

and that's something that

I still rest wrestle with.

708

: 00:37:12

I hope that's answering your question.

709

: 00:37:14

, I think Bitcoin helps with that because

Bitcoin forces you to look at things

710

: 00:37:19

on such a higher timeline, such a, , a

longer time, like 5 to 10 years, and

711

: 00:37:24

it forces you to really be honest

with yourself about what's going on.

712

: 00:37:29

On in the world, when people learn

about Bitcoin, one of the most

713

: 00:37:32

important things is the education

about the financial system.

714

: 00:37:36

I always say there's two types of people.

715

: 00:37:38

If you think everything's fine and,

and going on well with the government,

716

: 00:37:42

you probably don't want to talk to me.

717

: 00:37:44

If you think that , maybe some things

could be better, or you think that

718

: 00:37:48

maybe they don't always have your

best interest at heart that's probably

719

: 00:37:52

the person that I'll invest my time.

720

: 00:37:54

Talking with, , and so I think

Bitcoin and needing to do something

721

: 00:37:58

about we all have to figure out in

this environment as we move into

722

: 00:38:03

this post COVID world, lots of money

printing, our dollars being devalued.

723

: 00:38:07

We want to take care of our

families, our neighbors, our homes.

724

: 00:38:10

We have to figure out how

we're going to do that.

725

: 00:38:12

And Bitcoin forces us to one, be

honest every day, because you're doing

726

: 00:38:16

this thing that's contrarian, right?

727

: 00:38:18

And you're doing it with your

money and your livelihood.

728

: 00:38:20

I personally, I view, Bitcoin for me,

it's very, it's almost very divine.

729

: 00:38:24

It's like this almost like

divine intervention and it's very

730

: 00:38:28

equal in how it treats people.

731

: 00:38:31

, your money is treated the same

on the Bitcoin blockchain as say,

732

: 00:38:34

like Elon Musk's money would be.

733

: 00:38:36

and so it's very fair.

734

: 00:38:38

I think , there is a spiritual community.

735

: 00:38:40

There's a thank God

for Bitcoin conference.

736

: 00:38:43

, I don't know if I have words for it

yet, but those are the people that I'm

737

: 00:38:46

absolutely the most comfortable around.

738

: 00:38:48

, I think for me, Bitcoin is an

equalizer in a lot of ways.

739

: 00:38:52

And, I don't know how

that's going to unfold.

740

: 00:38:55

but what I have seen is my, some of

my friends who are very, you know,

741

: 00:38:59

cypher punk, it's a one or it's a zero.

742

: 00:39:02

There's not a lot of space

for spirituality there.

743

: 00:39:05

I think it's interesting that they

have, especially in the times that

744

: 00:39:09

we're living in now, they have sort

of felt almost more aligned with

745

: 00:39:11

people that have a spiritual belief

or any sort of religious conviction.

746

: 00:39:16

I think there's an

interesting parallel there.

747

: 00:39:18

To believe in something that strongly

and to be using it for the good of other

748

: 00:39:22

people and with those kinds of intentions.

749

: 00:39:25

Tali: Any last recommendations

for women who are still sitting

750

: 00:39:28

on the fence about Bitcoin?

751

: 00:39:30

, JB: I think I said this early on,

but I just want to emphasize, I can't

752

: 00:39:33

emphasize it enough, going to your local

meetup or being around people that are

753

: 00:39:38

local to you in the Bitcoin community.

754

: 00:39:40

If you have the patience, the Creature

from Jekyll Island is actually a pretty

755

: 00:39:44

good read, especially once you get

past the first couple of chapters, , it

756

: 00:39:48

does a great job of providing, a

template or an example of what happens

757

: 00:39:52

in cultures that fall to inflation.

758

: 00:39:54

It's just such a good history book, and

it'll get you up to speed really quickly.

759

: 00:39:58

I also am really excited

about Lynn Alden's book.

760

: 00:40:00

I wish I could say I had read it.

761

: 00:40:03

She's one of my favorite.

762

: 00:40:05

I mean, there's so many people

out there that are so good.

763

: 00:40:07

You could have a list 100 people long.

764

: 00:40:10

trying to think of the name of

her book, but that's the thing

765

: 00:40:13

that I'm most excited about.

766

: 00:40:14

Um,

767

: 00:40:15

Tali: money.

768

: 00:40:16

JB: but thank you.

769

: 00:40:17

, she has a way of presenting

complex subjects from a 50, 000

770

: 00:40:22

foot view very quickly and easily.

771

: 00:40:24

I think where you don't have to

necessarily have an econ degree to

772

: 00:40:28

understand what she's saying, so I haven't

read broken money yet, but it's definitely

773

: 00:40:34

on the list and I will, I feel confident

about recommending anything by Lynn Alden.

774

: 00:40:40

And then I think just.

775

: 00:40:41

Taking time to really understand

the trading that our senators are

776

: 00:40:45

allowed to do, you know, that our, our

elected representatives are allowed

777

: 00:40:49

to do the conflict of interest.

778

: 00:40:51

There are certain social media

accounts that will follow their trade.

779

: 00:40:55

And just understanding how senators

have to report that, if they have

780

: 00:40:59

to report if they trade in the ETF,

understanding a little bit of the nuts

781

: 00:41:03

and bolts of what moves the market

and what our elected representatives

782

: 00:41:08

are accountable for disclosing, I

think will take people a long way.

783

: 00:41:12

I had no idea about that before

I learned about Bitcoin, and

784

: 00:41:15

then just practical things.

785

: 00:41:17

The orange pill app is a

great way to meet people.

786

: 00:41:20

I've definitely found that

to be worth the investment.

787

: 00:41:23

and then when people are looking

for their meetups, I wonder if

788

: 00:41:27

you guys have noticed this too.

789

: 00:41:29

the meetup search function in and

of itself is not very good, but

790

: 00:41:32

if you Google the town that you're

in and then like Bitcoin meetup.

791

: 00:41:36

I think tends to find our meetups faster.

792

: 00:41:40

A lot of people have searched us

using the organic meetup search

793

: 00:41:43

function and they don't find us.

794

: 00:41:45

So, , I think just be sure to

look for a meetup in your area.

795

: 00:41:49

and then considering going to a really

big meetup, like, Tennessee and, , Texas,

796

: 00:41:54

that's such an experience, I think.

797

: 00:41:57

Still blows my mind every time I go.

798

: 00:41:59

, but yeah, I think those are things

that people can do to really

799

: 00:42:01

get them oriented in the space.

800

: 00:42:02

And also just buying a small amount

of Bitcoin, like 5 and practicing

801

: 00:42:07

moving it to a hard wallet.

802

: 00:42:09

even just getting a little bit

of skin in the game, your brain

803

: 00:42:12

will naturally gravitate and

pick it up almost by osmosis.

804

: 00:42:16

Cause you know you have some

small investment that will.

805

: 00:42:19

A lot of people say, Oh, I

looked at that so many times.

806

: 00:42:21

And so I think if people just buy a small

amount, your brain will automatically

807

: 00:42:25

commit you more to reading about Bitcoin.

808

: 00:42:27

Tali: Great, great suggestions.

809

: 00:42:29

so meetup.

810

: 00:42:30

com I have found to be slightly

frustrating in looking up

811

: 00:42:33

groups, just like you said.

812

: 00:42:35

One caveat I want to just mention

is there are a lot of crypto...

813

: 00:42:40

Meetups that are listed under Bitcoin.

814

: 00:42:43

So just make sure that when you're reading

the description, it says Bitcoin only.

815

: 00:42:47

Otherwise, it's likely that

they are just a trading club.

816

: 00:42:51

JB: right.

817

: 00:42:51

I get hesitant.

818

: 00:42:52

I don't want to encourage people to trade.

819

: 00:42:54

I could do a whole nother podcast with

you about dumb things JB has done.

820

: 00:42:59

, , for sure.

821

: 00:43:00

Yeah, I think that I think the

meetups are a great place to

822

: 00:43:03

get specific questions answered.

823

: 00:43:05

like you said, have been

barriers for people.

824

: 00:43:07

In a very supportive environment, I

would be shocked if someone went to

825

: 00:43:11

a meet up and people were dismissive

or didn't answer their questions

826

: 00:43:14

. Tali: thank you for sharing your stories.

827

: 00:43:15

Thank you for sharing all of

your experiences, even the

828

: 00:43:18

mistakes that you've made.

829

: 00:43:20

I think they, they made you

who you are today and they

830

: 00:43:22

prepped you for this moment.

831

: 00:43:24

So

832

: 00:43:25

JB: for

833

: 00:43:25

sure.

834

: 00:43:26

Yeah, I'm making better choices.

835

: 00:43:28

Yes, you can ask my friends.

836

: 00:43:29

I'm making better choices.

837

: 00:43:30

Now.

838

: 00:43:31

Definitely.

839

: 00:43:32

I think good things have come into my

life since going down the rabbit hole.

840

: 00:43:35

So I'm very grateful.

841

: 00:43:38

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

842

: 00:43:41

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

843

: 00:43:45

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

844

: 00:43:50

The meetup link is in the show notes.

845

: 00:43:52

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

846

: 00:43:56

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

847

: 00:44:00

Until next time, bye!