Episode 97

Liv - "Bitcoin allows you to live past this moment and plan for the future."

Liv's Perspective: Connection between Bitcoin, Human Behavior, and Well-Being"

In this episode of 'The Orange Hatter', the guest, Liv, a psychologist from Germany who lives in America, discusses her understanding of Bitcoin in relation to cognitive psychology and systemic behavior. She delves into the topic of why individuals are often resistant to Bitcoin, attributing this to the subconscious safety cues from our environment that correlate with our current financial system. These safety cues induce a feeling of security and disrupt the notion of adopting an entirely new system like Bitcoin. Liv goes on to articulate how Bitcoin offers stability, predictability, and inspires individuals to plan for the future - key elements that she argues are vital for our wellbeing. The conversation also highlights the importance of questioning existing systems and making long-term decisions. Liv encourages listeners to examine the current financial system critically, evaluate its advantages and disadvantages, principally the concept of inflation, in order to understand the potential benefits of Bitcoin better.


00:03 Introduction and the Importance of Safety in Altruism

00:38 Welcome to Orange Hatter: A Bitcoin Podcast

01:00 Exclusive Retreat for Women in Bitcoin

02:24 Liv's Journey into the Bitcoin Space

05:51 Exploring the Bitcoin Conference and Community

13:10 Liv's Involvement in Permaculture and Farming

18:37 The Challenges and Rewards of Raising Animals

25:21 The Connection Between Bitcoin and Nature

29:37 Depression Rates in Russia and the Power of Purpose

30:18 The Role of Community and Belonging in Well-being

31:31 The Impact of Nationalism and Cultural Conditioning

32:56 The Importance of Individual Choice and Self-Efficacy

35:17 The Influence of Culture and Conditioning on Perception

35:31 The Role of Responsibility in Community Participation

36:32 The Importance of History and Cultural Identity

41:29 The Impact of Conditioning on Our Perception of the World

43:57 The Importance of Questioning the Current System

50:04 The Potential of Bitcoin to Establish a Better System

55:05 The Importance of Long-Term Thinking and Questioning Everything

01:02:16 Closing Thoughts and Encouragement


*** Check out the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat at www.orangehatter.com/yucatan ***

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Please email to Tali@orangehatter.com for the private telegram group and zoom link.

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Sponsorship FULL

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Free Market Kids Short

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Transcript
Liv:

If we are questioning the current system, and we show people that their

2

:

safety cues in their environment

might be danger cues, we have to

3

:

present them a whole new system rather

than just to say Bitcoin is good.

4

:

I think the humans are very

altruistic and giving and helping

5

:

people is the best antidepressants

out there on the market right now.

6

:

The altruistic part of us cannot be

triggered if we do not feel safe.

7

:

So if I do not have a system

I live in where I can predict

8

:

something, then I'm not feeling

safe and then I can't be altruistic.

9

:

And this is what is destroying

us right now in a certain way.

10

:

Tali: Hey, everybody.

11

:

Welcome to Orange Hatter.

12

:

My mission for the Orange Hatter podcast

is that after tuning in and hearing

13

:

about everyday women's stories and

their path to Bitcoin, you think, Hey,

14

:

if Bitcoin made a difference for them,

maybe it could do the same for me.

15

:

I'm so glad you're here.

16

:

And I know you're going

to love today's episode.

17

:

Welcome.

18

:

Aleia: Hello listeners.

19

:

If you're a woman in the Bitcoin space,

looking for a transformative getaway,

20

:

then today's feature is just for you.

21

:

We've tailored an exclusive

retreat designed for rejuvenation,

22

:

connection and empowerment

specifically for women Like you.

23

:

Picture this mornings that

begin with yoga by the ocean.

24

:

Days filled with the awe-inspiring

beauty of nature and conversations

25

:

with fellow Bitcoin enthusiasts that

turned into lasting friendships.

26

:

This retreat is not just

a break from your routine.

27

:

It's a leap forward for

your spirit and career.

28

:

But it's more than

relaxation and networking.

29

:

We're actively supporting local

Bitcoin circular economies.

30

:

Your participation means contributing to

real world change, connecting you with

31

:

the impact of Bitcoin beyond the screen.

32

:

This is an opportunity to step

away from the daily grind to

33

:

recharge and to return inspired.

34

:

Whether you're deep into your Bitcoin

journey or just starting this retreat

35

:

will offer you valuable insights,

support, and a renewed sense of purpose.

36

:

Ready to be part of

this unique experience.

37

:

Visit www.orange hatter.com forge

slash Yucatan now to learn more and

38

:

reserve your spot spaces are limited.

39

:

As we aim to create an intimate and

impactful experience for each attendee.

40

:

Don't miss this chance to

recharge, connect, and contribute.

41

:

Join us.

42

:

Let's make this retreat a

milestone in your Bitcoin journey.

43

:

Thank you for tuning in and

here's to empowering your

44

:

path in the world of Bitcoin.

45

:

We can't wait to welcome you.

46

:

Tali: Hey Liv, welcome to Orange Hatter.

47

:

I'm so happy you're here.

48

:

Thank you for joining us today.

49

:

Liv: Hi, Teli.

50

:

I'm so happy to be here and

thank you so much for having me.

51

:

Tali: Awesome.

52

:

Let's dive into your

background a little bit.

53

:

Tell us a little bit about yourself.

54

:

Liv: I'm originally from Germany,

where I've studied psychology.

55

:

And I've moved one and a half

years ago to America because my

56

:

husband is originally from here.

57

:

We actually met in New Zealand while

traveling, and then we decided to stay

58

:

together, and we lived for two years

together in Germany while I finished

59

:

my master's there, and then we moved

around one and a half years ago here

60

:

to, to America, and While we were in

Germany and COVID hit and all those

61

:

restrictions were a thing and the

world was a little bit upside down.

62

:

I was at the end of my master's

and I had to get a couple of

63

:

seminars on behavioral economics.

64

:

And what I've learned was

how irrational we humans are.

65

:

And so I had a very interesting seminar

specifically on the crash in:

66

:

We had to read a couple of chapters

of the book of Daniel Kahneman.

67

:

He won the Nobel Prize for economics

and because he wrote a book on how

68

:

irrational humans are and yeah, he is

a super smart professor originally from

69

:

Israel and I was thrown off by how This

whole thing in:

70

:

from a psychological point of view.

71

:

We we learned that a lot of people like

who worked for banks gave out loans just

72

:

because they thought those people were

nice and looked like they can pay off

73

:

the loan, but didn't really check for.

74

:

Actually yeah, if they have jobs and

if they can really afford to pay off

75

:

that, so we were learning about this

and how also:

76

:

poor people were suffering from that

the most and that there weren't any

77

:

consequences for the bankers necessarily.

78

:

And at the same time, my husband was

talking about Bitcoin all the time.

79

:

I was a little bit annoyed at that time.

80

:

I have to admit, because he was talking

in the morning, in the evening about it.

81

:

And he was just.

82

:

nonstop talking about it.

83

:

And I was like, okay, is

it about Bitcoin again?

84

:

And I now since I'm in America, I

connected with a couple of women and they

85

:

said that we went through the same thing.

86

:

So no worry.

87

:

So I, I was a bit.

88

:

Interested in a certain way, but

also annoyed at the beginning, but

89

:

then yeah we did a lot of hikes.

90

:

You couldn't really do a lot during

COVID, so it's really nice in Germany.

91

:

You just leave the village and you

just go for a hike wherever you are.

92

:

And we talked a lot and he explained

Bitcoin constantly on a deep level.

93

:

And then I connected at some point, like

what happened in:

94

:

that happened and why it happened that

it is actually because we humans are so

95

:

irrational, and I'm not always thinking

that clear or making that those good

96

:

decisions, how we think of us, we do.

97

:

And to the topic of Bitcoin,

something which helps us to.

98

:

To exchange something to trade

something internationally wide,

99

:

but it's a currency, which is not

affected by the inflation at all.

100

:

And so I thought it was so interesting.

101

:

And this is yeah, my

background regarding Bitcoin.

102

:

And then we came last year to America

and my husband said there's in Miami, the

103

:

Bitcoin conference, why don't we go there?

104

:

Right before we arrive in America and then

actually fly to where we're going to live.

105

:

I was like, all right, here we go.

106

:

Let's go to Miami.

107

:

And I arrived there and he

was helping out on a boat.

108

:

Like, how do you say that?

109

:

I don't know.

110

:

Like on the conference, he

helped out there with someone

111

:

from a 3D printing company.

112

:

I think it's Max.

113

:

And so I was a little bit on my own,

but I met really cool people there.

114

:

I enjoyed the time.

115

:

I attended a couple of presentations

or talks, I had to, I have to

116

:

admit, it wasn't that I was thinking

like, Oh, this is amazing here.

117

:

I was thinking it's all about money here.

118

:

Then you, enter the hall where

there are so many companies who

119

:

are like, Hey, you get a deal here

and give us your information here.

120

:

And you get a little

extra gift here and there.

121

:

And it was a lot about money and.

122

:

It was in a certain way for me,

a bit superficial, but of course,

123

:

when, diving deeper into Bitcoin

conversation with people it was.

124

:

Yeah, very good in its own way and very

meaningful rather than the superficial

125

:

conference, which I didn't really like.

126

:

I appreciated though that Dr.

127

:

Jordan Peterson was there because

I really enjoyed his talk and

128

:

I was very I was sitting in the

crowd and he was talking about how.

129

:

He doesn't know how Bitcoin

will go in the future.

130

:

Like he got he said literally we

think it's so amazing and so great

131

:

of the tool, but we don't really

know if things will work the way we

132

:

think they will work because it's

very unlikely that a prediction will

133

:

go the way we think it will go from

what humans have experienced so far.

134

:

This is not always how it goes.

135

:

And so I was thinking I

was sitting there in this.

136

:

In this crowd, I was thinking Bitcoiners

are not going to like hear that, but

137

:

everyone was cheering him and I was

surprised in that moment and thought

138

:

maybe I'm missing something here.

139

:

Maybe it is not as superficial

as I think it is here.

140

:

So nevertheless, I left Miami.

141

:

And thought, cool, some rich people

meet here and have a fun time in Miami.

142

:

And then we arrived in Michigan and

my husband started the meetup here.

143

:

He was very like into that, very engaged

and participating in this Bitcoin

144

:

community and helping to grow it.

145

:

And I appreciated that he's so

enthusiastic about that and that he

146

:

wants to give something to the community.

147

:

What do you actually see

in a lot of Bitcoiners?

148

:

I have the feeling

everyone wants to share.

149

:

Everyone wants to provide something.

150

:

And we went to Lansing one time and they

were out of a sudden, those people, a

151

:

little bit older than 50, and they were

using miners to dehydrate their food.

152

:

They were growing food and they were

doing all those crazy things in nowhere.

153

:

Like you literally drove two hours

and then you arrive somewhere in a

154

:

hall, like a big hall and there's

little, a little lake, which is called

155

:

by the way, Lake Satoshi and out of

a sudden, there are those big cars.

156

:

And then they have and they bought

all the bank and there's a Trezor,

157

:

like an old, very old Trezor.

158

:

And that's full of Bitcoin stuff.

159

:

This whole old bank has handouts

on Bitcoin, the white papers on the

160

:

wall and all those kind of things.

161

:

And I was like, what are we doing here?

162

:

And then Mike, who is One of the

organizers, besides Ben and PF, who

163

:

are running the meetup there, was

like, Hey Liv, how are you doing?

164

:

I was like, good.

165

:

And he's so do you have any

questions regarding Bitcoin?

166

:

And I was like, yeah, I do not

understand everything in detail.

167

:

And he's yeah, okay, come with me.

168

:

And he has that like, And there's

the mempool and everything.

169

:

And he explains to me everything.

170

:

And I was like, what is happening here?

171

:

And so those people from, are

from point of view, very grounded,

172

:

very connected to nature.

173

:

They all have gardens

or something going on.

174

:

A lot Bitcoineries in Michigan,

also the South Bend, sorry,

175

:

it's the Benton Harbor meetup.

176

:

All those people are in Ann Arbor.

177

:

They have a meetup now where everyone

is into those topics of farming,

178

:

sovereignty, and I just loved it.

179

:

And so then we met Carl, who

is the down in Benton Harbor or

180

:

South Bend closer to that area.

181

:

And he's running his permaculture

project with 30 sheep and chickens

182

:

and all those kinds of things.

183

:

And also like very grounded people.

184

:

And I was just like thinking,

this is so cool here.

185

:

And this reminded me a lot also of

those events, Katie, the Russian is

186

:

organizing where it's all about the

whole system, not just about money.

187

:

It's about what do we eat?

188

:

How can we improve that more woman

can give birth in a normal way

189

:

rather than having a C section.

190

:

How can we improve our medical treatment

and all of those kinds of other

191

:

topics, which are very fundamental.

192

:

And so I thought it was just so

amazing to experience it that way.

193

:

And this is what got

me really into Bitcoin.

194

:

Tali: I love what you said about

how Bitcoin is not just about

195

:

money and that conference that

you were at was my first time.

196

:

In a Bitcoin conference and like you, I

didn't want to go and listen to speakers

197

:

speaking at me from a stage I went to the

floor and I talked to people eyeball to

198

:

eyeball because I wanted a person telling

me about Bitcoin, from two feet away so I

199

:

can feel if they are sincere because you

can get a lot from people's vibe, right?

200

:

And I bugged these vendors to no end with

so many questions and they were patient

201

:

with me, but it was what convinced me

finally that we needed to participate

202

:

in this space and so in that way I

think we're very similar and I went to

203

:

the Jordan Peterson talk as well and

afterwards Scott and I were talking about

204

:

it and the same thing that you just said

was what I said I'm like he's the only

205

:

person who raised that question which

is what are the unintended consequences

206

:

of Bitcoin because everybody 99.

207

:

9 percent of people in the space

are very optimistic, right?

208

:

We believe in the fundamentals.

209

:

We think it's going to be the solution

to world problems, but he was the only

210

:

one who said, what are we not seeing?

211

:

And I love that honesty about him.

212

:

So I just really resonated

with what you shared about what

213

:

you got out of the conference.

214

:

And yes, people were applauding because I

feel like Bitcoiners are quite open minded

215

:

in general, we are willing to consider

different points of view, which is so

216

:

unlike the rest of the world these days.

217

:

I feel like it's just an echo chamber

on whatever side you stand in,

218

:

that's the echo chamber you stand in.

219

:

But in Bitcoin space, I think we're pretty

open to consider all the possibilities.

220

:

So that's been really cool.

221

:

So you got involved in permaculture

and I'm very fascinated by that

222

:

because as we discussed before we

recorded, I have failed miserably

223

:

in my own attempts, my own fault

because I didn't do any research.

224

:

But yeah, let's talk more about that.

225

:

What are you guys doing on

the farm and how are you

226

:

learning from other Bitcoiners?

227

:

Liv: Since I didn't have my green

card for quite a while and I was

228

:

waiting for the work permit, I

didn't really know what to do here.

229

:

And I always loved nature.

230

:

I grew up in Germany in a

village with 900 inhabitants.

231

:

And since we.

232

:

Have two farms in that village with

cattle, goats, sheep, chickens.

233

:

And you literally, even if you

don't have any animals you can

234

:

get your eggs from everywhere.

235

:

Like you just ask someone like,

do you sell some eggs today?

236

:

And of course, you have all the resources

and all the access to really good food.

237

:

And so my parents, for example, they

budget every year, a quarter of a cow.

238

:

And just down the street, and

it is very well connected and

239

:

really good food in Germany.

240

:

There are also certain certificates which

show that vegetables or animals were

241

:

treated in a biodynamic way, so they

don't use any pesticides or anything.

242

:

So you can also go in a supermarket

and get really good food.

243

:

Coming here to America.

244

:

I was thrown off a little bit.

245

:

You can go here in America, probably

to really good farmers markets,

246

:

but they are also hard to find.

247

:

And often it takes them some time to drive

there because they're not everywhere.

248

:

And then you also sometimes

limited to what you can get there.

249

:

And it's also expensive, especially

Because of the inflation, especially

250

:

products like farm, like products,

they go up in price the most.

251

:

This is actually what's written and say

for Dean's a moose, a book, the Fiat

252

:

standard that those kinds of products

are affected the most by the inflation.

253

:

So I said to my husband

I'm not working anyways.

254

:

Why shouldn't we get involved

in this little farm here?

255

:

Because we live with my parents in law,

and they have a little farm going anyways.

256

:

And I said I can help

out my father in law.

257

:

So I took over the chickens.

258

:

We have now, at the moment, 80 chickens.

259

:

We will butcher, though,

around 20 to 25 in two months.

260

:

And That was a lot of fun, right?

261

:

From the beginning, a lot of chickens

are very naughty, unfortunately, so

262

:

they got out of the fence and then

I had to think about solutions.

263

:

I experienced that nature is

not really predictable and

264

:

can really challenge humans.

265

:

And first of all, I started off with those

chickens and then I started breeding them.

266

:

So this year I bred 30 chickens.

267

:

And last year around 20 and we have a

lot of gardens around five gardens with

268

:

a lot of plans like 120 tomato plants.

269

:

From my father in law, I have around.

270

:

I would say 25 broccoli plants this year

I raised from seed and then I have around

271

:

15 celery plants I raised from seed and

I haven't done much before except that I

272

:

always a little bit helped out my mom back

home she's also having her gardens but

273

:

yeah it's all new to me and I think it is

so important to learn stuff like this to

274

:

know how it works and it actually is very

fulfilling and then we got to know Carl

275

:

and his wife, Carl Goldsberry Rathoddle,

and he's running this permaculture project

276

:

close to Benton Harbor, and he has sheep.

277

:

And I always thought, while I'm

not working, I could actually get

278

:

into either having goats or sheep.

279

:

Not necessarily cattle because they're

pretty big and you have to have certain

280

:

equipment to be able to have cattle.

281

:

So I said something little

and Raphallo has sheep and he

282

:

said They're low maintenance.

283

:

They're a specific kind of sheep.

284

:

They are very resistant when it

comes to parasites, and they can stay

285

:

outside during the wintertime, which

is really good because we don't have

286

:

an option to bring animals in the barn.

287

:

In the barn are chickens, so

there's no more space left.

288

:

We said actually, that

sounds pretty good to us.

289

:

We bought two pregnant sheep in April this

year, and then they gave birth in May.

290

:

And we got five little ones.

291

:

And that was a very

interesting experience.

292

:

Getting up at nighttime, hearing them

making noises and being there while

293

:

they're born, and then being part

of the whole process of observing

294

:

them, how they grow or how they

struggle and where they need support.

295

:

And yeah, I think it's a lot of fun.

296

:

It's sometimes driving me crazy

if they get out of the fence and

297

:

are naughty and cross the street.

298

:

And I'm just thinking, how did that

happen that they cross the street where

299

:

there is a lot of traffic going on?

300

:

And seven sheep survived

passing the street.

301

:

So I'm also right now thinking I

hope they're in that pen because

302

:

they got already out this morning

But yeah, it's a lot of fun on

303

:

the one hand, but it's also work.

304

:

So I don't want to Give everyone the

impression that it's so romantic and

305

:

always going well but it's fun definitely

and it's meaningful and I think that's the

306

:

important one that it is meaningful work

and It's also important that we learn that

307

:

things are not always working out the way

we want it to for our own mental growth.

308

:

Okay.

309

:

Tali: okay, here's the problem that

I have thinking about raising my own

310

:

animals, especially watching them be

born and raising them from babies.

311

:

How are you going to eat them?

312

:

They're like your babies.

313

:

Liv: Yeah.

314

:

I don't know what happened with me,

but I was always thinking the same way.

315

:

And then I raised chickens.

316

:

And if you raise chickens.

317

:

The probability isn't that low

that you raise a female chicken.

318

:

It's actually very high.

319

:

That's that it is a male chicken.

320

:

And last year I was just

experimenting around.

321

:

I was just doing what I

thought I could do right now.

322

:

Let's put some eggs in the

incubator and see what happens.

323

:

And then we were standing there

in October, November, and there

324

:

were those 10 roosters in our

chicken coop driven by testoterone.

325

:

They were super aggressive

and crazy in a certain way.

326

:

They were just jumping from

one hen to the next one.

327

:

So I entered the chicken coop and everyone

was sitting in their roosting area.

328

:

And I wanted to feed them, so the

first hens were coming down from

329

:

the roosting area, and the roosters

were jumping on them right away.

330

:

So it was a disaster, and sometimes

the hens would just run up to me,

331

:

knowing they would be safe around me.

332

:

They were so scared, and we had that

really beautiful, colorful rooster.

333

:

And I bred him together

with a really nice hen.

334

:

Their name is Peter and Rosa.

335

:

And they were our breeding chickens

for the last year's season.

336

:

And they were running around outside.

337

:

And we just, we made that

funny joke and gave them names.

338

:

And interestingly twelve, from

twelve chickens, ten were roosters.

339

:

And I don't know what happened

in this moment, but those

340

:

roosters were just nasty.

341

:

And then I said to my husband,

we have to take them out because

342

:

our hens are not laying anymore.

343

:

They're scared.

344

:

They're getting beaten up.

345

:

And then you experience nature

being brutal in its own way.

346

:

And then it helped me to be

okay with butchering a rooster.

347

:

And I killed.

348

:

a rooster.

349

:

I would have never thought that

I would be able to do that.

350

:

But it's just the connection.

351

:

I'm losing this kind of fear of like being

connected to nature and my own survival.

352

:

If I'm not eating, I have a problem.

353

:

And I think we cannot live off just

vegetables because what Raph Hottle, Carl

354

:

is saying, those animals are a battery.

355

:

They eat during the summer and then

during wintertime they restore value.

356

:

And we can eat them during the

winter time and we will be okay.

357

:

I think it is important that I'm able

to kill my own animals if I want to eat.

358

:

And I am interested in how it

will go with the sheep because

359

:

we haven't butchered them yet.

360

:

But yeah, I think it will be okay, . It's

just what other option do we have?

361

:

I feel like we have the option

throughout the last decades to always

362

:

go towards this kind of statement or

this kind of philosophy, easy choices.

363

:

Like we can always go for easy choices.

364

:

We just have to go to the

supermarket and we will be fine.

365

:

And we can fly everywhere and we can

go on vacation and we can do a lot of

366

:

things, which is what the fiat standard

and the capitalism created for us.

367

:

But it has also its downsides.

368

:

So I think that having always the

option to get everything we want.

369

:

Brings us to a state where

we are not having any aims

370

:

anymore goals in life anymore.

371

:

And that makes it a bit tricky because

I think it's very important to have a

372

:

goal in life to go towards something

and also to face that things are not

373

:

always working out the way we think they

will work out and also to do things.

374

:

Which aren't nice because this

is actually how life goes.

375

:

It's an up and down of we have to face

something which is hard, a hardship, and

376

:

then things will be okay again because

we acknowledge and appreciate things

377

:

way more if they're also sometimes

like those reminders that life can be

378

:

hard and we should be very thankful.

379

:

And I have sometimes the feeling like

I worked in the area of neuropsychology

380

:

in Germany and I had a lot of clients

who are coming into my office and said,

381

:

I had a stroke last week and I'm super,

super scared that it will happen again.

382

:

And we see it very often that people

who have had a stroke that they get

383

:

depressed very easily, especially men.

384

:

And I had the feeling they have never

even thought about the option that life

385

:

could end or that something goes wrong.

386

:

But most of the time they were

having high positions like CEO

387

:

positions or something like this.

388

:

They had kids, family,

everything went well.

389

:

And then all of a sudden things change

and then they have to figure out, okay,

390

:

what is my strategy here right now

to compensate this, like to be okay

391

:

with that it didn't work out the way I

thought it would be that life can end.

392

:

And this is what nature teaches

me, and I'm not going to be happy

393

:

and I might even cry when we take

out our sheep because I love them.

394

:

But.

395

:

Yeah.

396

:

Sacrifice the lamb.

397

:

This is what's written and in

a very ancient book, the Bible.

398

:

So I think there is something to it.

399

:

And my husband is saying the same thing.

400

:

A lamb is very precious.

401

:

When we lost one of the lambs while they

were being born and we maybe we would

402

:

have been able to help the lamb because

the mucosa was wrapped around its head

403

:

and the mom couldn't get the mucosa off.

404

:

Yeah.

405

:

the placenta.

406

:

So the mom didn't have a chance

to help her baby to not die

407

:

because it couldn't breathe.

408

:

And we were approaching in the morning,

the pen, and we heard two little

409

:

sheep or lamb were like making noises.

410

:

So we were like, Oh, this is so cute.

411

:

And this was the first time

that we experienced that

412

:

one of our sheep gave birth.

413

:

And then I saw there was a dead lamb

laying and That is something so different

414

:

than any other animal, I would say.

415

:

They're very precious, they're

very meaningful, and so I think

416

:

it's very hard to give them away.

417

:

But I think that's, yeah,

something which helps us to accept

418

:

that life is the way it goes.

419

:

It is about a cycle of life.

420

:

It's about being born and dying.

421

:

And this is what I think about that.

422

:

Tali: I think you're so right in that

the past few decades have made life

423

:

so easy that we start to have a quite

distorted view of how things work.

424

:

So one of the examples I can share when

I felt that was when I stopped buying

425

:

meat from the grocery stores, and I was

buying exclusively from a beef farmer.

426

:

And When you go on their website,

they are out of stock often of

427

:

different parts of the animal.

428

:

So for the chickens, they would sell out

of the legs and then for the beef, they

429

:

might sell out of a certain kind of cut or

they're, they might be out of the bones.

430

:

And those are limited quantities, like the

smallest quantities on an animal, right?

431

:

On every chicken you get Two legs.

432

:

And if you package them up, you're

going to sell out of them quickly.

433

:

It's not like the grocery store

where chicken legs are unlimited.

434

:

And anytime you want chicken legs,

you can go there and get it because

435

:

that's how they're produced.

436

:

But when you go to a family farm, you

realize that everything is finite.

437

:

If you sell out, you got to wait.

438

:

Sometimes they sell out milk

because They're just out.

439

:

And it's the season when the cows are

feeding their own babies and they're

440

:

not taking the milk from the mom.

441

:

And then you just have to wait.

442

:

And learning to go with that cycle was

actually a mental adjustment for me.

443

:

Liv: Yeah, I can totally understand

that like that changes something in us.

444

:

Bitcoin does that too.

445

:

And that's the interesting thing.

446

:

Like I sometimes hear those young men

or women saying, yeah, I was investing

447

:

in ethereum I was investing in this

and this and everything went well, but

448

:

then it didn't went well and then it

wasn't up and down and started to annoy

449

:

me at some point and then I saw Bitcoin

and like it and the appreciation of

450

:

Bitcoin that it is limited in Bitcoin.

451

:

And we won't have the option to just

create more is I think what changes

452

:

humans and their thinking, because all

of a sudden, we have to work towards

453

:

something, and we have more a goal

where it's like, As of now, the society

454

:

is just spending money, how the system

is set up to the system wants us to

455

:

spend money to help the economy grow.

456

:

But what is being created

is not really valuable.

457

:

For example, what we get from China.

458

:

But people still I sometimes have the

feeling tell themselves the story that

459

:

they get whatever they want and that

everything is great the way it is.

460

:

And so ignorance is

bliss in a certain way.

461

:

But, we humans in general,

we want more and more.

462

:

What we see is that people create

amazing or maybe crazy events to have a

463

:

baby shower or a bachelorette's party.

464

:

So they go, for example, to Hawaii

to have a bachelorette's party.

465

:

That wasn't even a thing back in the days.

466

:

Back in the days, it was

all about friends are coming

467

:

together and having a great time.

468

:

And it's about positive relationships.

469

:

And it still is in a certain

way, but it has to happen with

470

:

all this craziness around it.

471

:

That it has to be a really cool event.

472

:

And At some point, people are

not thinking they can get whatever

473

:

they want, and they need more and

more of those dopamine rushes.

474

:

So if we do something great, or

if we drink alcohol, if we get

475

:

a positive feedback, a certain

neurotransmitter is released in

476

:

our brain, and that's dopamine.

477

:

And that gives us a good feeling.

478

:

That's why we are

thriving in a certain way.

479

:

And I think that if we work in

that way, And there are no limits

480

:

to things we want more and more.

481

:

But we see that we are not really being

fulfilled on the long run, because

482

:

it's just always this short Oh, nice.

483

:

We got another dopamine rush

and now it's the next one.

484

:

And now it's the next one.

485

:

It's an addiction in a certain way,

but there is not really something

486

:

meaningful necessarily to it.

487

:

And this is what we experienced

right now in Russia.

488

:

Russia has all of a sudden a goal.

489

:

A higher goal in life.

490

:

And this is to win against the West.

491

:

It's a new topic, not a new

topic, it's a related topic, but

492

:

that's a very interesting theme.

493

:

And so what studies show right

now is that the depression

494

:

rate in Russia went way down.

495

:

They did a study on that

and the Kreml published that

496

:

study, as far as I'm informed.

497

:

And it is crazy to see that all of

a sudden the people know Yeah, this

498

:

like life I've experienced that I

could go to Starbucks and have a

499

:

coffee or I could go to go out or

Egypt to have a nice vacation.

500

:

Those things were all in

a certain way meaningless.

501

:

But all of sudden, there's

something really meaningful.

502

:

And they are thriving towards the goal.

503

:

And their depression goes down, because

they're working towards something.

504

:

I do have to say.

505

:

That there is also another factor,

which is part of this development or

506

:

process, and that is that Russians

are also having the An enemy now.

507

:

So always when a population or

group has an enemy, , then they are

508

:

having a higher sense of belonging.

509

:

And this is also what well being is

about well being is about having an aim,

510

:

but also feeling like you're part of

something like the sense of belonging.

511

:

So this is what we see to that those

two factors are an important role,

512

:

but just the crazy fact that yeah.

513

:

In Russia, the depression goes down

because they have a higher aim in life is

514

:

something which shows me that something is

definitely wrong with our system because

515

:

they already should have had that feeling

of a sense of belonging and to have an aim

516

:

before and not just because of war starts.

517

:

Yeah.

518

:

Tali: I think you hit

the nail on the head.

519

:

There are so many people who are floating

around out there and they don't know

520

:

What tribe they belong to, and when

you don't know what tribe you belong

521

:

to, it's a very lonely and scary place,

and it's a very anxiety inducing place.

522

:

I talk to my kids a lot from a point of

view of them being biracial, I grew up

523

:

in a developing country, Scott obviously

grew up here, and what we were taught

524

:

as kids growing up were so different.

525

:

Where I grew up, Nationalism was drilled

into the children, pride over your

526

:

nation was absolutely drilled like being

Chinese was a great sense of pride.

527

:

We were proud of our hair color.

528

:

We were part proud of our eye color.

529

:

We were proud of our skin color.

530

:

There was a huge emphasis

on feeling proud to be Chinese.

531

:

And so the culture is

preserved in that way.

532

:

We learn stories, folk tales and

everybody believed in the same

533

:

thing, ? Scott grew up here and to

a much lesser degree because it was

534

:

decades ago patriotism was taught.

535

:

But now it is the opposite.

536

:

Kids are being taught to hate their

past, which is such a detrimental thing.

537

:

I think like what you were saying

to look at their people and then

538

:

think, Oh, they did terrible things.

539

:

I need to amend for their sins . You.

540

:

Literally take away their

ability to feel proud of their

541

:

tribe and is so detrimental.

542

:

What do you think about that from the

point of view of a psychologist and also

543

:

from the point of view of an immigrant?

544

:

Liv: So I think that you can approach

the feeling of belonging to a

545

:

community in two different ways.

546

:

I see that development right now happening

in Germany, where we have one party trying

547

:

to enforce this feeling of belonging.

548

:

And then it happens with singing

the hymn showing flags of

549

:

Germany, and stuff like this.

550

:

And this is super superficial,

it's nothing meaningful.

551

:

And telling a child from childhood onwards

yeah, pride of the nation, and kind

552

:

of conditioning children towards this

feeling to be part of this community.

553

:

I think it's just going

the wrong direction.

554

:

Like we see that with the Amish

people here, they're being taught in

555

:

a certain way, how to live their life.

556

:

And they were educated in a certain way.

557

:

But as far as I'm informed, when

they're around 18 to 20, they leave for

558

:

a year, their community, to consider.

559

:

If They still want to be part of

their community, or if they want to

560

:

be maybe part of another community.

561

:

And I think it is so important to, to not

force people in this direction, because

562

:

the most important thing to improve well

being and to reduce depression is to

563

:

help people to decide for themselves.

564

:

So that they feel that their

actions and their decisions matter.

565

:

Self efficacy is the key word right there.

566

:

And What I see is we have more and

more regulations, we are more and more

567

:

forced in a certain way, now they want

our children to sing the hymn, that the

568

:

children feel more like they are part

of a community, and that doesn't work.

569

:

Because that's just maybe we feel in

a certain moment Oh, that's good.

570

:

We're part of that.

571

:

But that's not for the long run.

572

:

That's just for a short period of

time and what shows us the most that

573

:

people are not really feeling like

they're part of a community is that

574

:

they don't want to pay their taxes.

575

:

If you are part of a community, you want

to provide for the community and you.

576

:

Actually, we should have the intention to

pay taxes, but people get married right

577

:

before the new year to pay less taxes

or they have consultant who help them.

578

:

So something in a system where

we're forced to do something,

579

:

or to feel like we're part of it.

580

:

It's just not going to work.

581

:

That's the one aspect

I can say about that.

582

:

What I think is important is.

583

:

That people have a responsibility, though.

584

:

People cannot ask for someone to act

in their Opinion or in their belief

585

:

if they're not participating, they

cannot be like, Hey, government,

586

:

do whatever I want you to do.

587

:

And then things like, this is how I

want it and you just do it for me.

588

:

And this is what we see right now

though on worldwide, everyone is

589

:

like, I want a better life, and

the government should do that.

590

:

But what I think is best is if everyone

has to participate again, like You

591

:

have to go every month to a community

meeting, you have to participate at

592

:

least one member of the family to

give people the feeling that they have

593

:

responsibility and to give people the

feeling that they belong to the community.

594

:

This is what I can say about that

topic and the sense of belonging is

595

:

a very crucial one for well being.

596

:

And.

597

:

I do not see it right now.

598

:

I see it in the Bitcoin

community a lot though.

599

:

Everyone wants to provide

something and everyone feels

600

:

like he's part of that community.

601

:

Now, Tali, I need you to clarify

a little bit more the question

602

:

regarding the history aspect that

they want the children to forget

603

:

about the history and neglect that.

604

:

Can you explain that for me one more time?

605

:

Tali: Yeah, I just, I feel sad

when I talk to my kids about

606

:

much their peers are told.

607

:

to be almost ashamed of their And I

feel that if you are ashamed of your

608

:

history or what your people did, then

how do you figure out where you belong?

609

:

Because at the same time,

family units are breaking down.

610

:

And like what you said, The most important

part for a human being to feel is that

611

:

they belong somewhere like they have

their community like you're saying, and

612

:

they're working toward a common goal,

like what you're saying in Russia, in the

613

:

United States, I feel sad for children

who are told that they can't be proud of

614

:

the community they're a part of, which

is America, I'm not saying they should

615

:

or should not be taught a certain way

I think the hurt comes from robbing

616

:

them of the community that they're with

because they're told to fight against it.

617

:

You know what I'm saying?

618

:

We can talk about gender,

we can talk about race.

619

:

It doesn't really matter, but they're

being robbed of their community in

620

:

the way that they are being taught.

621

:

today.

622

:

My kids, they know their community

because they grew up in the homeschooling

623

:

community, like you're saying, like

the Bitcoiner community is very tight.

624

:

People feel a great sense of belonging.

625

:

They're contributing and

they know who they are.

626

:

Same thing for the homeschooler community.

627

:

It's tight.

628

:

They know what they're

trying to accomplish.

629

:

So they know where they belong.

630

:

But a lot of kids don't get that at

all, whether it's a home or at school.

631

:

And I just think that's really sad.

632

:

Liv: Yeah, definitely.

633

:

History has shown us that

people can be very brutal.

634

:

I'm from Germany.

635

:

I know very well what happened

during Hitler, the Hitler time.

636

:

Because we were talking about this

every year in school, every year in

637

:

a different subject I've heard about.

638

:

What Hitler did and how things went and

there is a generational problem right

639

:

there because on the one hand, those are

our ancestors, who participated in that.

640

:

And now we can think a little

bit about this of humans.

641

:

We humans, we have created

something so great.

642

:

We drive cars, we fly from one continent

to the other within a couple of hours.

643

:

And we were able to to improve certain

things in this world in a certain way.

644

:

And we are in a certain way very

smart when it comes to planning

645

:

and creating and working together.

646

:

But we are very irrational.

647

:

And What happened during Hitler, for

example, was mass formation, group

648

:

thinking, and a lot of other cognitive

biases impacted the whole population,

649

:

affected them, and they did what they did.

650

:

And studies show us that it could happen

again, and it could happen also on other

651

:

continents and not just in Germany.

652

:

And what I Now say that those people are

all who did that are crazy and horrible

653

:

in a certain way, they did a big mistake

and they should have stood up, but

654

:

they are also irrational and there are

psychopaths out there that from what I am

655

:

aware of, it's like a certain percentage.

656

:

It's not 60%, it's, I think

closer to lower than 10, I think.

657

:

And to be like, I have a grandmother who.

658

:

Was alive during the Hitler time, but

she's still my grandmother, and I think it

659

:

is important to, to learn from this, those

things that they happen to reflect on

660

:

this, rather than to judge and to be like

they did this it can happen to everyone.

661

:

And I think it is important that, we are

not saying the history is bad, it is.

662

:

For sure it is.

663

:

Please don't understand me wrong.

664

:

It was very bad what happened there, and

I don't want in any way find an excuse.

665

:

Exemption for that, or say that's

okay, it was definitely not.

666

:

But I'm trying just to reply to your

question that I think it, it doesn't make

667

:

sense to, to be like, hey, they were bad,

your history was very bad and that takes

668

:

apart and like, families, I think it is

important that we also, in a certain way

669

:

forgive our, especially our families and

to try to understand each other, but also

670

:

to try to especially reflect on ourselves.

671

:

Are we doing mistakes right now?

672

:

Are we conditioned in a certain way?

673

:

And maybe we want to think differently

especially the inflation is a

674

:

thing where we are so conditioned

to this new system that inflation

675

:

is good for us or is okay to have.

676

:

But we are not questioning it

because we're so conditioned.

677

:

As an example I have lived

in different countries.

678

:

I've lived for half a year in India, for

a year in New Zealand, for two months

679

:

in Turkey, and For the most part of

my life in Germany and now I'm here in

680

:

America since one and a half years and

you understand culture and how culture

681

:

has developed in a way more deeper level.

682

:

And a very funny aspect of what

Americans are doing and Germans

683

:

would never do is washing your child

in the sink when it's very small.

684

:

I don't know if you have heard about

this, but this is what Americans do.

685

:

And I mean it's fair enough.

686

:

You can wash your child in

the sink if you want to.

687

:

I am washing chickens before

I prepare them in the sink.

688

:

I would never wash my child in the sink.

689

:

I have told to my sister and my

sister-in-law in Germany that is a

690

:

crazy thought to think we should, we

could wash our children in the sink.

691

:

And you see right there, we are

differently conditioned in that way,

692

:

that this is okay in one culture and

it's not okay in the other culture.

693

:

And.

694

:

The same goes with inflation.

695

:

We're conditioned to it, but we're not

questioning it if it is right to do

696

:

that, to have an inflationary system.

697

:

So I can just encourage everyone

to think about them and how they

698

:

perceive the world and why they

perceive the world the way they do.

699

:

Because we're conditioned.

700

:

I'm sorry, that's not any news, but it is

not something people like to hear because

701

:

we all are convinced we have a free world.

702

:

Which we do in a certain way.

703

:

It's just, we are also like, we

depend on our culture and it's

704

:

also important to have a culture.

705

:

It's very important.

706

:

It's very important to have

rituals and traditions.

707

:

It's important for us.

708

:

There's a reason why we have Monday

to Sunday, like to Sunday is a week.

709

:

And Sunday is the day where

we're not doing anything because

710

:

we need a structure as a human.

711

:

But, yeah, I think it's still very

important to, to question certain things

712

:

and but not to judge necessarily others,

this is at least what I've learned in my

713

:

education program to become a systemic

counselor where you try to understand

714

:

systems and how they work and how we

all perceive the world differently

715

:

because we all have different experience,

but we shouldn't judge someone else.

716

:

Except if it comes to harmful behavior or

something like this, does that make sense?

717

:

Tali: Oh, yeah, definitely.

718

:

Definitely.

719

:

Okay, let's talk about why you think

people lack interest in Bitcoin.

720

:

Liv: So as I already said, we are

Part of this community, part of the

721

:

system we are in, and our nervous

system is constantly looking in our

722

:

environment for certain cues which are

showing us if we are safe or not safe.

723

:

So we go out into the world, for example,

we go into town, and if there is a

724

:

person who screams, Our nervous systems

immediately and also in a subconscious

725

:

way, detecting there's something going

on and you might have experienced that

726

:

something changes in the body all of

sudden, we're a bit like we're tensing

727

:

up like we're a little nervous.

728

:

So there's an nervous system

kicking in right away, and we

729

:

can't do anything about it.

730

:

That is very inherent in us.

731

:

And it is the autonomic nervous

system which plays a very

732

:

important role in that moment.

733

:

And the autonomic nervous system

means that we cannot impact it.

734

:

It will regulate our heartbeat

and we can't do anything about it.

735

:

It works on its own.

736

:

And so the autonomic nervous

system is constantly detecting

737

:

if we are safe or not.

738

:

and.

739

:

We have created a system where we have a

retirement plan, we have bank accounts,

740

:

and the bank is taking care of our money,

have hospitals, we have a great medical

741

:

system, and we have a great food system,

we have all the time the option to go

742

:

into the supermarket and to buy food.

743

:

And the thing is, our autonomic nervous

system is detecting now, I am safe, I

744

:

have all those systems set in place.

745

:

And they will help me if I'm in a

dangerous situation like I, I will be

746

:

okay because I can go into the hospital.

747

:

I can do this or that.

748

:

And then we've been coming around and

we're saying, yeah I don't know if

749

:

I would trust in that bank system.

750

:

The inflation, this is just, it's just not

going to work really well on the long run.

751

:

The system will eventually crash.

752

:

And what is happening in someone like.

753

:

When it comes to money,

it impacts everything.

754

:

It impacts the food system, the

medical system and everything.

755

:

And we are triggering the

autonomic nervous system because

756

:

the autonomic nervous system is

out of a sudden detecting danger.

757

:

And the interesting part is that we think

that the autonomic nervous system is just.

758

:

regulating our heartbeat

or our gut activity, but it

759

:

also impacts how we behave.

760

:

So for example, if someone is super

nervous, their voice will change,

761

:

their behavior will change, their

gesture and mimic will change,

762

:

and the person will also perceive

their environment differently.

763

:

So if I have a patient who has a super

stressful time and I already feel that

764

:

in the person because he's super nervous.

765

:

His voice is different than usually.

766

:

He will likely perceive my

gesture and mimic different.

767

:

And he, like we see that in people

with depression that they judge neutral

768

:

behavior more as something negative.

769

:

So they think a person didn't like them,

even though their behavior was neutral.

770

:

And so someone who, whose autonomic

nervous system we are triggering

771

:

might even perceive us differently

than we are actually are.

772

:

And so I think this is something so

inherent in us and so conditioned

773

:

that, yeah we have to be Very careful.

774

:

And that is why I think it is so

important to look at the bigger picture.

775

:

And this is my philosophy.

776

:

If we are questioning the current

system, and we show the people that

777

:

their Safety cues in their environment

might be danger cues We have to

778

:

present them a whole new system rather

than just to say Bitcoin is good.

779

:

And this is why I love the work of

Katie the Russian, who's always doing

780

:

those underground Citadel events

right before the Bitcoin conferences.

781

:

And she's showing in those, doing those

events that we have to improve our medical

782

:

system and we can like we have now crowd

health as a as a health insurance or like

783

:

it's not a health insurance, but it's

Healthcare supporter, I don't know how to

784

:

call them but they help people to pay off

their bills and to be like a community.

785

:

And so I think that with crowd health and.

786

:

And Texas Slim, who's improving the

the food system by connecting farmers

787

:

with each other and other people who

try to provide for this community

788

:

that we actually create a whole new

system or with homeschooling, like

789

:

homeschooling is a big part too.

790

:

And I really appreciate that.

791

:

For example, you and your husband

are so focused on that because that

792

:

improves our school system again.

793

:

And so we take away those safety

cues, but we present new ones.

794

:

And I think this is how it is

important to approach people.

795

:

And I'm not here as a psychologist

to, to tell Bitcoiner on

796

:

how to manipulate people.

797

:

Not at all.

798

:

I'm just trying to give an idea of why

we are sometimes running against the wall

799

:

and are not getting closer to the people.

800

:

Though we know that it might be

interesting to just think about this topic

801

:

of Bitcoin and maybe just learn about it.

802

:

And that's all I am asking people

to do, to question themselves and

803

:

how far Yeah, Bitcoin might help us.

804

:

Tali: I really resonated with what you

said about how, if you are depressed or

805

:

if you're anxious, you will view someone's

neutral reaction as something negative.

806

:

That is so true.

807

:

And yet, like what you're saying before

too, that it is such a part of ourselves.

808

:

We are not even aware that we're doing it.

809

:

We're not even aware that our

perception has changed because it's

810

:

just happening in in the background.

811

:

away from our conscious awareness.

812

:

That's really cool.

813

:

That what a great way to frame it.

814

:

Let's talk about That second point that

you told me you can cover, which is why

815

:

Bitcoin can establish a better system.

816

:

I know we already touched upon

different things, but would

817

:

you like to expand on that?

818

:

Liv: a lot of bitcoiners are

questioning the system in a lot of ways.

819

:

So on the one hand, The school system

is lacking a lot of important aspects,

820

:

and so homeschooling is becoming

a bigger part of the community.

821

:

Then the Beef Initiative and other

Bitcoiners, like here in Michigan,

822

:

too, are focused on whole foods,

on good foods, on local foods.

823

:

And you we see that in

the community a lot.

824

:

people are considering what can I eat?

825

:

And also Seyfeddin Amus, he is

talking about this a lot in his

826

:

book, The Fiat Standard how our food

consumption or what we eat has changed

827

:

and how this impacts our health.

828

:

And regarding this point, I

can just say it's very true.

829

:

We see from my point of view,

I don't know any study on it.

830

:

So that's just my perception.

831

:

I see that more and more people

get the diagnosed cancer.

832

:

And I know there are a lot of studies out

there showing that cancer is Occurring

833

:

when people have not enough different

bacteria, good bacterias in their gut.

834

:

So we have in our gut those

little microbiomes, the bacterias,

835

:

and we have good and bad ones.

836

:

And the good ones are

very important for us.

837

:

They help us to produce.

838

:

For example, neurotransmitters for

our brain, for example, serotonin or

839

:

dopamine, that we actually feel good.

840

:

That's the reason why sometimes people

have depression right after they took

841

:

antibiotics, because they kill off

the good bacteria, they can't produce

842

:

serotonin anymore, and they get depressed.

843

:

And those bacteria are very

important for us to not have cancer.

844

:

And with the food we are consuming right

now we are not really supporting the

845

:

growth and the, or we are not really

maintaining our good microbiomes.

846

:

And I think this is also something where

the Fiat system, the system we're living

847

:

in right now is failing, that they

are prescribing too many antibiotics,

848

:

and that we have foods out there who

do not provide those good microbiomes

849

:

anymore, like whole milk, like good

fresh milk has so many microbiomes in it.

850

:

It's very important and also fresh

air, but also this is changing because

851

:

we are most of the time inside and

we are not working outside anymore.

852

:

So we are actually

breathing in good bacterias.

853

:

It sounds funny.

854

:

I know, but it is the truth.

855

:

And then it exchanges is

in our body with our gut.

856

:

And so I think that a lot of

bitcoiners are questioning that

857

:

and are not going with the flow.

858

:

Dr.

859

:

Martin Seligman, he is the president

of the American Association

860

:

for Psychology, the APA, and

he has a very good reputation.

861

:

He's high up.

862

:

He was voted in this Position

of being a president of the A.

863

:

P.

864

:

A.

865

:

The highest quote ever.

866

:

So and he has formulated a

lot of incredibly interesting

867

:

theories on psychology.

868

:

And he's saying it doesn't really

matter what studies show, it

869

:

matters what people want to believe.

870

:

And this is a big problem, and I think

Bitcoiners are escaping this and are like,

871

:

what are actually the studies showing

us, and how should we live our life?

872

:

So that's regarding the medical aspect,

that we are questioning the system,

873

:

and we provide a new system where we

actually look at the studies, and , we

874

:

wanna Look how things go on the long

run rather than just for now, like if

875

:

people have an infection, of course,

an antibiotic will help quickly.

876

:

But what is happening with the health

of that person on the long run?

877

:

And I think this is a big one.

878

:

We have to think long

term and not short term.

879

:

But humans tend to always go for the

short term decision, releases dopamine

880

:

and it is very hard to inhibit it.

881

:

The desire to go for it right now,

rather than to wait and to decide

882

:

for something in the long run.

883

:

Yeah, I think we create a new system

in a certain way automatically.

884

:

And there are a lot of overlapping.

885

:

Interests in Bitcoiners like good

food and alternative medicine

886

:

, growing things in a biodynamic way.

887

:

Connecting farmers with each other

and all those kind of things.

888

:

And also, of course, to have a

healthy money and to think about

889

:

what changes in our system if we use

Bitcoin as a healthy and hard money.

890

:

We are living towards something and

we save towards something rather than

891

:

just to spend and to enjoy life right

now, but do not think about the future.

892

:

Tali: I feel like you've summarized the

best parts of Bitcoin, but I'll just go

893

:

ahead and ask the last question anyway,

what would you say to women who are

894

:

still sitting on the fence about Bitcoin?

895

:

Liv: I can, I encourage people

just to question things.

896

:

As a psychologist I like to ask

questions to to help people.

897

:

To go into into certain topics and to

develop and to experience their own path.

898

:

So I can just encourage people to

question, are we that rational,

899

:

or are we maybe irrational?

900

:

And if we are making mistakes, and

if we are maybe affected by group

901

:

thinking, Why is that the case?

902

:

And what are the consequences

of us doing that?

903

:

What are the consequences, for

example, of accepting always the

904

:

flu shot if it's recommended?

905

:

Do we know the consequences?

906

:

Is it very necessary to get

the flu shot right away?

907

:

And all those kind of

things questioning things.

908

:

And I think that, to answer how

I would reply to that question.

909

:

I think we are irrational in a lot of

ways, and I think that, for example,

910

:

to decide how much money the government

should print is a very rough question,

911

:

and it is always that decisions always

affected by a lot of emotional content.

912

:

So if, for example, our minister is going

to Ukraine and seeing all the suffering

913

:

there, which is very horrible and then

has to decide how much money do we

914

:

print or how much money do we give them?

915

:

This cannot be a rational question

because but the problem is That we want

916

:

to save the world because we're, in

general, very altruistic human beings.

917

:

We want to help everyone.

918

:

We don't want to see anyone suffer.

919

:

The problem is just, I cannot give

anything if I have to take care of my own

920

:

people first and to look out for those

poor people rather than to print money.

921

:

The rich one can profit off of that,

and the poor ones are suffering more.

922

:

And we create this disbalance.

923

:

Which is actually making everything

worse, but we have helped someone at

924

:

the same time, and this is what making

what's making it so hard because you

925

:

sound horrible if you say that we have

to consider how much money we spend on

926

:

donations and of course we should donate,

but we also like it's a bigger picture

927

:

we have to consider a lot of aspects.

928

:

And so I think that We have

to question those things.

929

:

We have to question if what

we have learned so far in life

930

:

is how it should go or not.

931

:

And yeah, I can just say that on

the long run, it will be a way

932

:

more fulfilling life if we are

living towards a Bitcoin standard.

933

:

So we see in studies that the life

satisfaction is not really increasing.

934

:

I don't exactly know the numbers,

but if people, for example, earn 80,

935

:

000 a year, approximately, it doesn't

matter how much more money they earn,

936

:

it won't change their well being.

937

:

This is what study shows it.

938

:

So well being doesn't really

correlate from Above the 80,

939

:

000 with the income anymore.

940

:

Underneath that it does.

941

:

So people have to have a certain

amount of money to be able to stay

942

:

alive and to have the option to

live or work towards something.

943

:

And then.

944

:

Yeah, that is important to have in that

moment, the the monetary support and to

945

:

be able to grow to establish well being.

946

:

But everything above that

doesn't really make a difference.

947

:

And I think it is

important to consider this.

948

:

And to know we might be more

happy with less in a certain way.

949

:

And I think this is what

is so great about Bitcoin.

950

:

We can afford something, we can predict

our future, because the Bitcoin we

951

:

have, this is what we will have always.

952

:

The part of the big portion.

953

:

And we can develop something

and live towards something.

954

:

And so I think it will help us just to

grow to know, yeah, what we can expect.

955

:

Tali: Yeah, I think Bitcoin allows

us to live and plan past this moment.

956

:

If you're living the FIAS standard,

you almost Can only live in this

957

:

moment because looking forward, there's

inflation you don't know how much right

958

:

but Bitcoin allows you to live past

this moment and plan for the future and

959

:

then you're Then given the liberty to

stand back and look at Larger picture

960

:

overall than just the tunnel vision of

this moment and your survival in this

961

:

moment So it sounds like that's what

you're saying is Question everything

962

:

because you got to look longer term.

963

:

You got a look Bigger picture

So would you agree with that?

964

:

Liv: Yeah, of course.

965

:

Yeah, we have to look at the

bigger picture and long term.

966

:

We have to think in the long run.

967

:

It's just also our current system,

which is not supporting the idea of.

968

:

Of Bitcoin, I think it is

important to question that system.

969

:

That's all I ask people to do for now.

970

:

Ask, is inflation good?

971

:

Or is it maybe not good?

972

:

And what are the advantages

and disadvantages of that?

973

:

And I think at the moment, why people

disagree so much with Bitcoiners is

974

:

because everyone is saying the system

we're in right now is good and it

975

:

comes down to the behavior people

to actually be able to judge if

976

:

this current system is good or not.

977

:

If I understand the behavior of the

human on a very deep level, then I can

978

:

actually decide If the system we're

in right now is good or not, if I

979

:

understand that people are in a certain

way, willing to look out for their

980

:

future and if they can't predict the

future because the money isn't stable

981

:

enough, then they will want to create

more and want to buy more and more houses.

982

:

And then we create that gap between

rich and poor and that's not giving

983

:

us in any way, still stability, but

because then that's the big question- is

984

:

that real estate market stable or not?

985

:

So all those kinds of different

things, which will be the big solution,

986

:

like investing in real estate, for

example, could also crash, so people

987

:

will get more and more greedy.

988

:

In compared to that, I hope

because I think the humans are very

989

:

altruistic and giving and helping

people is the best antidepressants

990

:

out there on the market right now.

991

:

The altruistic part of us cannot be

triggered if we do not feel safe.

992

:

So if I do not have a system

I live in where I can predict

993

:

something, then I'm not feeling

safe and then I can't be altruistic.

994

:

And this is what is destroying

us right now in a certain way.

995

:

Tali: Thank you so much.

996

:

That was so helpful.

997

:

I love the way you frame that.

998

:

And I hope our listeners will

begin to question what they perceive

999

:

to be reality a little bit more.

:

01:02:08,934 --> 01:02:10,674

So thank you so much for your time.

:

01:02:10,674 --> 01:02:11,824

I really appreciate it.

:

01:02:12,324 --> 01:02:14,004

Liv: Yeah, it was really

great talking to you.

:

01:02:14,014 --> 01:02:15,574

Thank you so much for having me on.

:

01:02:16,861 --> 01:02:18,601

Tali: Thank you for

listening to this episode.

:

01:02:18,931 --> 01:02:19,861

Did you enjoy it?

:

01:02:20,071 --> 01:02:22,261

Wasn't our guest absolutely fabulous.

:

01:02:22,291 --> 01:02:24,781

I just love every woman's

story on this show.

:

01:02:25,051 --> 01:02:28,531

Everybody has a unique perspective

and yet, we all come to the same

:

01:02:28,531 --> 01:02:31,558

place, which is Bitcoin is an

important part of our lives.

:

01:02:31,948 --> 01:02:34,285

If this story has inspired you

and you would like to know

:

01:02:34,285 --> 01:02:37,675

more, go to www.orangehatter.com.

:

01:02:38,095 --> 01:02:38,905

Get involved.

:

01:02:39,065 --> 01:02:42,115

Join and our reading group, send

me an email and introduce yourself.

:

01:02:42,373 --> 01:02:44,233

I will be so happy to hear from you.

:

01:02:44,547 --> 01:02:49,100

The best way you can support this

show is to spread the word Tell

:

01:02:49,150 --> 01:02:50,816

every woman, you know, to listen in.

:

01:02:51,056 --> 01:02:54,206

You never know how they will

be impacted by these stories.

:

01:02:54,553 --> 01:02:56,173

I appreciate you so much.

:

01:02:56,293 --> 01:02:57,433

See you next time.

:

01:02:57,463 --> 01:02:58,003

Bye.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Orange Hatter
Orange Hatter
Woman-to-Woman Bitcoin Conversations

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Tali Lindberg

Tali Lindberg

"Hello everyone, I'm Tali! If you had met me a few years back, you'd have found me in the thick of homeschooling my four incredible kids. That was my world for two decades, filled with lesson plans, school projects, and a whole lot of beautiful chaos. But once they all graduated, a new and unexpected journey began for me - in the world of Bitcoin.

The spark was lit by my husband, nudging me towards this peculiar thing known as Bitcoin. At first, I resisted. After all, the complexity of Bitcoin was intimidating and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, and even went as far as creating a bitcoin-mining board game, HODL UP, to teach me what it was. Before I knew it, I was orange-pilled, and my curiosity was piqued. What started as a casual dip of my toes soon turned into a fascinating dive into Bitcoin. Like my homeschooling journey, I took it slow, one baby step at a time, learning and adapting as I delved deeper.

Fast-forward to today, I am absolutely thrilled to share my Bitcoin adventures with all you amazing and busy women out there through this podcast. I've made sure the episodes are bite-sized and easy to follow, perfect for your coffee breaks or while running errands. My goal? To share my experiences and the experiences of other women in Bitcoin in an engaging, easily digestible way. Don't let time constraints or technical jargon stop you from diving into Bitcoin. As your friendly guide, I hope to provide a grounded, relatable perspective to help you navigate the Bitcoin rabbit hole. So, here's to us exploring this thrilling digital frontier together!