Eyes Wide Open: Teruko's Shift from Scam to Advocate - I studied Bitcoin so I couldn't be scammed, and fell in the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Teruko: 00:00:05

I bought Bitcoin, I didn't know what I bought.

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But I was so happy.

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Finally, I'm going to be rich.

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Two days later, the bubble bursted.

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I'm like, what?

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What just happened?

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I knew it.

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It's a scam.

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And I cursed myself for a few

days, but then I thought, I really

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have to figure this thing out.

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Otherwise, I'll be scammed

again in the same scheme.

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So that's when I finally took

time to research about Bitcoin.

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Tali: Hey everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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I've got a very exciting

announcement to make today.

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The website for the Orange Hatter retreat

is up and registration is now open.

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We're offering a 21% discount for anyone

th,: 2024

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We did have to move their

retreat up by one day.

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So it will run from March

16th through the 20th.

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In Merida, Yucatan, Mexico.

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This is in partnership

with project Yucatan.

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It's going to be an amazing five days

of recharge, restoration and deep

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connections with women Bitcoiners.

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It will be an absolutely incredible

chance to meet like-minded women and form

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friendships that will last a lifetime.

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Please go to the website,

www.orangehatter.com/yucatan.

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And I will see you in Mexico.

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And now onto our very wonderful guest.

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Enjoy welcome to Orange Hatter.

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I'm so excited to have you here.

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I can't wait to dive in.

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Teruko: Thank you.

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Thank you for having me.

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It's good to be on the show

hosted by our fellow women.

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Tali: Yes, definitely woman

to woman conversation.

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All right.

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So I know the audience can see

this, but we are very casual here.

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I am literally sitting with a

coat on and a blanket on my legs

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because I'm in the basement talking

to Turiko over a cup of coffee.

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We want this story to be

very relatable to you.

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So yeah, let's get right to it.

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, Turiko, so tell us a

little bit about yourself.

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Um, Um,

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Teruko: Okay.

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So, , my name is Teruko.

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Now I'm working for a Bitcoin company

for over four or five years already.

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But before that, well,

people , see me as a free spirit.

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I like to be free or like, I

like to have, , like options.

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I value flexibility.

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, and then I'm not afraid of changes,

like I'm a risk taker, so my life has to

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like, big turns several times growing up.

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, I was born and raised in Japan, but

, the typical Japanese, . Not like me.

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So I, I'm usually, I'm

the, , like, loud one.

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I'm really spontaneous.

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I ask questions at school.

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So, teachers are like, you know, , it's

so rude to question me, like, at class.

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And then I, but I can't help it, right?

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Because I'm so curious.

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So, , yeah, that was, like, me growing

up, but my family were very supportive of

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me being kind of, you weird, funny, like,

free and independent personality, so I

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was quite lucky, and then, , so naturally

I was interested in the world outside of

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Japan, so as soon as I entered college

I started traveling around the world.

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, So far, I've probably visited

more than 70 countries.

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, but I stopped counting after 50

countries, so I don't know exactly.

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But, I did, , yeah, like,

backpacking, Europe I did, you

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really, like, souvenir, like, five

star hotel type of traveling, too.

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But, , so my college dates for like those

traveling dates, but then you graduate

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college and you have to start work, right?

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So my first job was because

I love traveling so much.

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So, , I wanted to be in the

industry, which I can also travel.

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So naturally I chose.

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a travel agency so I can be a tour guide.

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But that was a big mistake.

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If you love something, you

should keep it as a hobby.

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Not make it, , a work because,

you know, work, because you do

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something you don't want, you suffer,

that's why you get compensated.

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So, the first lesson I learned, I'd say,

you know, , fresh out in that, , work.

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But, , yeah, so I couldn't

last long, and then I quit.

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And then I was so afraid of

telling my parents I quit

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my job after like two weeks.

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So I'm like, I have to find

a new job before I come, you

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know, clean to my parents.

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Yeah, I was like, anything,

just, you know, job.

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I need a job.

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So, , then I, , like I was like

going through a job posting

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site and blah, blah, blah.

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This new job, which where it's like the

law firm, and it's just a legal assistant.

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And then there, I was hired as a

legal assistant, but I found out

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that it was back in the late 90s.

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So, everyone had a PC.

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Everyone had emails.

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That office, or maybe law industry

overall, wasn't digitalized at all.

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And then I had to, like, Go to

the warehouse and then pick up the

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files from the pile of files, right?

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So, I'm like, why do I have to do it?

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If they have a database,

I know exactly where the

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information they are looking for.

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So, I'm like, , going to the partner

and then, complain about my job being

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inefficient because of this manual work.

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Right?

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And then he was like,

what can what can I do?

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I mean, you know, what do you want to do?

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So I'm like, I wanna build, database,

even though I had no experience, right?

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But, already, Microsoft had a, What's it?

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Access, which is the software, you

can actually build, , customize

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the database, even though you

don't have a coding skills.

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So, , yeah, even though I was hired as

a legal assistant, I kind of, , pivoted

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myself to this, database project,

like it's my personal project.

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So it was funny.

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So I still had to work as a

legal assistant during the day,

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but after the work, I could

work on my own project and then.

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At first, they were not going to

pay me for my own project because

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that's, something I just wanted to do.

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But, so it took me almost like six months

to like eight months to complete it.

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Literally uploaded all the

files information, at least the

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index export to the database.

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And then I automated the reporting system

so we don't have to manually write the

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monthly or weekly update to our clients.

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So, even though I spent 6 to 8 months of

that, the time saving I got afterward,

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after we had this big case, was huge.

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And the partners saw the benefit.

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So eventually they actually paid

me to buy that database from me.

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So that was very, , it was exciting.

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It was something I did by myself.

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And then I actually made money.

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And then the whole process,

I actually enjoyed a lot.

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It was everything was new to me and

then I had to, go to a bookstore,

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look for something I can use.

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And then also I was born with

this, , forum asking questions.

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I want to make this I need this function.

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How can I get it.

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And the people were so nice

that they just do this, this.

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Yeah, so that was my, I would say that

was my, first encounter with technology.

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Like software.

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So, , I got really interested

into that area of the business.

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So, , I decided to quit the law

firm and then went back to school.

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So I went back for master degree in the U.

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S.

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, because at that point, I thought, okay,

maybe I could do simple coding and

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programming, but I'm not good at it.

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So, I wanted to be more like

IT consultants, so I went back

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to, , business school to get my MBA.

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And then, yeah, business school was fun,

it was busy, and it was, all that stuff.

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But, um, after I finished the school,

I , I didn't stay in the us I came back

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to Japan and then for so , which is

kind of IT consumer product company.

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And then that product I was

assigned was, yeah, it was, it,

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it was like the iPhone without.

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cell phone.

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It's like everything you can do, like

you can take picture, you can listen

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to the music, it's just you can't talk.

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It's not a phone.

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I lost that.

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Yeah, it was also fun.

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I was in like product planning, like

marketing, but because it's Sony, it's

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a big company, everything was so slow.

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And then whatever you want

to do, you have to fill The

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forms, paperwork was killing me.

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And then, the person who values

flexibility and freedom couldn't take it.

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So much structure that I have to follow.

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And I'm like, ah, just kill me.

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So, I left after two years.

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And then after that, I

was, , pretty much on my own.

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I started my online business.

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At one point, I was

doing personal shopper.

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And after that, I was full time airbnb

host because I love traveling, right?

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And then I stayed at

Airbnbs all over the world.

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And then I was like why

don't I just start Airbnbs?

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So even though, even when I'm in

Japan, I feel like I'm traveling.

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So, I did that for five years, I think.

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Yeah, so I was like, really, yeah.

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I'm like, the post on foods.

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Get, like, I'm curious, so I always

can find something to distract

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me, like, for a year or two, and

then I really dig deep into it.

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But then, I'm like, okay, I'm done.

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Something new.

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I need something new.

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So, yeah, I was changing the

jobs every three, four years.

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And then I was enjoying that kind of life.

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That was that was pretty

much my pre Bitcoin days.

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Tali: I find it very fascinating

that you are so not the typical

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Japanese woman that people think of.

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So I want to dig a little deeper

into your childhood because Japan

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is kind of interesting because

you have simultaneously the very

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rich and very deep traditions of

honor and respect and structure.

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And then you're also at the

cutting edge of innovation.

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when you were growing up and being

curious and asking questions when

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you're not supposed to, I'm really glad

to hear that your parents supported

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you, but what was it like for you as a

student in the Japanese school system?

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With your personality.

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Teruko: With my personality,

because, , Because I'm, like, super

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social, , If I go somewhere, I usually

dominate this, you know, first place.

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I'm like, you know, yeah, I

can do this, I can do that.

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So, luckily I was also well

accepted by friends class too.

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I was never picked on.

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I guess I was too strong to be picked on.

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Yeah, I was always, class

president was like that.

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people usually don't like to be in that

role, and then, like, yeah, I'll do it.

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Kind of.

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Yeah.

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So, in a way because I ask questions

I'm not supposed to, so teachers are

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kind of annoyed, but at the same time,

because I volunteer to be a class

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president, so they also value to be

kind of, you know, spontaneous and

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then take actually responsibility.

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Tali: How was that like when you

were going through testing phase

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of entering higher education

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Teruko: Oh, like, specifically

study for college entrance

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examination and stuff like that.

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Yeah, that was tough because,

, you have no flexibility.

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There is only one answer, right?

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It's usually multiple choices.

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So, but I have a good memory, so

I could memorize a lot of stuff.

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so I did okay.

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Yeah.

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The tough part is you actually

have to, so you have, you can

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train yourself to do good in that

kind of testing, testing, right?

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So, junior high and high school, I had

to go to this cram school, especially

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tailored for scoring high on that

kind of So, that wasn't fun, and then

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that consumed my you precious free

time, so I didn't do that at all.

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Yeah, but I knew already that that's

something I have to go through

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to be in a place I want to be.

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So, yeah.

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Tali: Okay, so you get through the testing

phase and now you are at the university

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and you said that you actually traveled

a lot during your university years So

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Teruko: Yeah, so,

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Tali: programs or were they

just vacation kind of trips?

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Teruko: it's vacation type of

trip, but, Japanese educational

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system is different from the U.

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S., I think.

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So, up until high school, their

whole purpose for students are

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getting into the university.

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And once you get into university,

Like, unlike, in the U.

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S., you actually have to work really

hard in the university, right, to

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get the grade or just to graduate.

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But Japan is not like that.

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Once you are in, you will be graduating,

even though you don't have to do any work.

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So, in my case, yes, I was I was

a student at the university, but

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I didn't really go to classes.

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Like, I didn't attend classes.

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And then professors, uh, also lazy

too, so they used, they reused, , the

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same test over and over for many years.

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So I could just get the test in advance.

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from, a friend who's already

been through the same class.

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So, yeah, literally, you can

graduate without studying in Japan.

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So, instead of going to classes,

I actually started working.

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It's a part time job, but, I was

almost working as a full timer.

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Like, I was working eight hours a

day to save money for traveling.

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Yeah, so I work and

then save up the funds.

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Then, once I have enough, I just

took off, even though school was in.

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Like, it wasn't.

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Even summer break or spring

break, I just, whenever I had

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money, then I just took off.

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Tali: Okay, so The four years that

you were in college, you were actually

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Not doing college work at all.

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It was in name only.

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And you literally took

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Teruko: so I was, um, yeah, yeah, so

I, I was supposed to study economics,

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and then I have a bachelor degree

in economics, but, yeah, I didn't

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learn much about economics, but

luckily it was Keynesian, so, yeah.

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Thank God I didn't, learn Keynesians.

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Tali: That's too funny.

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Okay.

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And I guess that's just a general

understanding of all Japanese.

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It's just that you basically complete

your education by high school

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graduation and then the four years of

college is the reward that you get.

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Teruko: Yeah, yeah, it's like a moratorium

you get before facing the tough reality.

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Tali: Yeah.

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Teruko: years of vacations.

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But I think nowadays,

it's a bit different.

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Because my niece actually go to school

every day and then start even, have a

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homework, doing the homework at home.

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So Maybe they changed.

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Tali: Well, here's my question then.

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Do you think that English is The

education that you experienced through

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world traveling was far more valuable

than maybe a classroom experience where

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you, you get the professors lecturing

you and you have to write papers.

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Teruko: I don't know because

I didn't go that way, right?

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I couldn't really compare

which I didn't experience.

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But, I would say, I don't know like

educational wise, but the traveling

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definitely influenced me a lot.

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They made my personality.

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or, They affected my

value and my perspective.

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Because, you know, born and raised in

Japan, it's a clean country, everything

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works, and the people are so nice.

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It's very different from the

rest of the world, right?

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So, when you go out, you meet people.

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who are not that nice, who

are trying to scam you.

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Or like, you go to a country which

is not clean, and you don't even want

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to use bathroom, but people are using

bathroom, so I'm like, how can they?

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Or like, you know, , yeah,

like, everything.

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Of course, back then, Japan

was having bubble economy.

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Japan was like number

one power in the world.

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So, like, everywhere I go, I felt like,

wow, everything is so cheap, right?

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So, , yeah, those things you

wouldn't know unless you actually

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go out and, see yourself.

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And then also, because I was doing

backpacking and then staying at a

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youth hostel with total strangers, you

get to talk to those people, right?

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And then people who are

almost, like, same age as me.

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I went through a lot already, one guy

was saying, yeah, my father was judge at

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a screen call, that he was assassinated.

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I'm like, what?

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And girls were saying, yeah, my

country is so poor, and I'm the

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first one who went to college.

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I'm like, what?

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People don't go to college.

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You know.

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Those type of stuff.

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And then, on the other hand,

you will have royal family.

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Who has maid, who has five cars, and

then they have all different work, right?

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So, it's like, I'm like,

wow, the world is so big.

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I know nothing about it.

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I was humbled by it.

312

: 00:21:03

Yeah.

313

: 00:21:04

Those experiences, I guess.

314

: 00:21:07

Tali: Okay.

315

: 00:21:07

So you, you've traveled the world,

you've met all these different people

316

: 00:21:11

and you've seen different things.

317

: 00:21:13

You return to Japan.

318

: 00:21:15

Now you're looking at.

319

: 00:21:17

What you grew up with, with fresh

eyes, how did that affect you

320

: 00:21:20

when you were looking for a job?

321

: 00:21:22

Because you have mentioned in the

previous conversation that the culture

322

: 00:21:26

was changing right around that time,

especially where women were choosing not

323

: 00:21:30

to start a family and not to be boxed

in that role of being a wife and mom.

324

: 00:21:35

Did that contribute to your

viewpoint when you went back to

325

: 00:21:39

Japan and you started working,

326

: 00:21:41

Teruko: Yes, so, yeah, I think women

in late 20s or even 30s, they have,

327

: 00:21:51

it's difficult, right, because, You

have to decide if you want to get

328

: 00:21:54

married, if you want to have kids, if

you want to start a family, where you

329

: 00:21:58

want to live , tough decisions you have

to make, and then that decision will

330

: 00:22:02

actually determine the rest of your

life, so you'll be, of course you'll be

331

: 00:22:07

afraid of making big decisions, right?

332

: 00:22:09

, but now, when I look back, you suffer,

because you actually have, Lot of

333

: 00:22:15

options, but as you get older, your

options are , it's one by one, it

334

: 00:22:21

disappears, at a certain age, you

cannot have child, so like, less,

335

: 00:22:26

one less thing to worry about, right?

336

: 00:22:28

So, but, of course, when you are late

twenties or thirties, you don't know that.

337

: 00:22:35

So, I was yeah, I was

going through tough times.

338

: 00:22:39

Especially around thirty.

339

: 00:22:41

That's when I graduated

from business school, too.

340

: 00:22:45

The timing was, I could have married

and started a family, but then my

341

: 00:22:51

degree, MBA degree, which be just

waste it, but in Japan, it's either or.

342

: 00:22:57

If you choose career, you pretty much have

to give up on marriage and having family.

343

: 00:23:03

And then if you want to have family,

then you have to sacrifice your career.

344

: 00:23:08

And then I'm like, I just spent two years

and there's so much money on my education.

345

: 00:23:12

I can't just give up.

346

: 00:23:16

I have to repay, like, I have a huge debt.

347

: 00:23:20

I have to work.

348

: 00:23:21

Yeah, and then also, , yeah, because I

grew up in the culture, I knew, , what was

349

: 00:23:28

, would be like if I get married to typical

Japanese man, which I wanted to avoid.

350

: 00:23:35

So, yeah.

351

: 00:23:37

even my mom, who's been married,

happily married for many years, and

352

: 00:23:43

then, my parents are really good,

and then I grew up in a good family,

353

: 00:23:47

but even she said don't get married.

354

: 00:23:50

To me, because seeing you, I could

actually, support myself financially and

355

: 00:23:55

then I'm strong enough to be live myself.

356

: 00:23:59

So she's like, you are not gonna

be happy to have that normal,

357

: 00:24:05

like, typical Japanese wife life.

358

: 00:24:08

So, yeah, stay away.

359

: 00:24:10

Tali: I'm just so blown away by

how supportive your parents are.

360

: 00:24:14

that's amazing to not have that

burden, because if they had said

361

: 00:24:18

no, what's wrong with you, why,

why won't you do the typical thing?

362

: 00:24:21

I think that would have been

very difficult for you to

363

: 00:24:23

kind of break out of the mold.

364

: 00:24:26

Teruko: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

365

: 00:24:27

So, , yeah, I'm just lucky, I guess,

because I know a lot of my friends who

366

: 00:24:32

went to, you know, school with, yeah, they

definitely have pressure from parents, and

367

: 00:24:38

then also, you know, peer pressure, too.

368

: 00:24:40

everybody, my close friends were, like,

married young and then starting having

369

: 00:24:45

kids, Am I really going to be by myself?

370

: 00:24:48

Am I going to be okay?

371

: 00:24:50

I questioned myself, but I just

couldn't give up my freedom.

372

: 00:24:56

Freedom is really important to me.

373

: 00:24:58

But, I mean, eventually, to make

someone else happy, then you have

374

: 00:25:06

to be happy yourself, too, right?

375

: 00:25:08

Tali: Absolutely.

376

: 00:25:09

Teruko: Yeah, I realized I wouldn't

be happy, if I tied in, put into this

377

: 00:25:14

box, and then I can't even do anything.

378

: 00:25:17

How can I make, you know,

my kids or my husband happy?

379

: 00:25:21

Like, you know, I don't think I can, so.

380

: 00:25:23

Tali: Okay.

381

: 00:25:24

So we've established

that you love freedom.

382

: 00:25:27

I think that's a wonderful

segue to get into Bitcoin.

383

: 00:25:30

You've just quit Sony and now walk us

through how you came across Bitcoin.

384

: 00:25:35

, Teruko: I mean, My Bitcoin story

is actually really typical.

385

: 00:25:41

, you heard of the word Bitcoin

like so many years ago, but

386

: 00:25:45

you couldn't, you didn't care.

387

: 00:25:47

It's you just dismissed it

as, yeah, it's, it's a scam.

388

: 00:25:50

It's a speculation.

389

: 00:25:51

So you didn't give any

time to look into it.

390

: 00:25:55

So I started hearing about Bitcoin

back in: 2013

391

: 00:26:03

been investing in stocks and

real estate from college, right?

392

: 00:26:08

So I've been watching Bloomberg, CNBC,

and then sometimes, when the Bitcoin

393

: 00:26:15

price went, they would report that, yeah,

Bitcoin just broke a hundred dollars.

394

: 00:26:23

And then I typically remember

the first time Bitcoin actually

395

: 00:26:27

broke a hundred dollars.

396

: 00:26:29

Yeah, I think that was 2014.

397

: 00:26:33

So, yeah.

398

: 00:26:34

But still, I'm like, yeah.

399

: 00:26:36

I mean, you know, it's tulip bubble.

400

: 00:26:39

People will go down to zero.

401

: 00:26:41

So I didn't even pay attention.

402

: 00:26:44

But, 2017 in bubble, I couldn't

just watch the price going up and

403

: 00:26:50

then making everybody so richj So

finally I bought my first Bitcoin in

404

: 00:26:59

December 2017 without doing research.

405

: 00:27:05

So even though I bought Bitcoin,

I didn't know what I just bought.

406

: 00:27:10

But I was so happy.

407

: 00:27:11

Finally, I'm going to be rich.

408

: 00:27:14

Two days later, the bubble bursted.

409

: 00:27:17

And then it, you know, the

price crashed to a half.

410

: 00:27:21

I'm like, what?

411

: 00:27:24

What just I knew it.

412

: 00:27:27

I knew it.

413

: 00:27:27

It's a scam.

414

: 00:27:29

I was, you know, rug

pulled, And I was so upset.

415

: 00:27:33

And I cursed myself.

416

: 00:27:35

For a few days, but then I thought, okay,

I really have to figure this thing out.

417

: 00:27:42

Otherwise, I'll be, you know,

scammed again in the same scheme.

418

: 00:27:47

So that's when I finally took

time to research about Bitcoin.

419

: 00:27:53

I didn't know where to go.

420

: 00:27:55

I didn't know what to

read or who to listen to.

421

: 00:27:57

So basically, I just Googled.

422

: 00:28:00

and then read all the articles in it.

423

: 00:28:04

And then I was like,

yeah, see, it's a scam.

424

: 00:28:07

You see, it's a scam.

425

: 00:28:09

But then, I found this blog post

and then that made me wonder,

426

: 00:28:17

Oh, maybe it's not a scam.

427

: 00:28:20

Maybe it might be.

428

: 00:28:21

So the blog post was, , by BJ Boyapati.

429

: 00:28:26

It's famous The Bullish Case for Bitcoin.

430

: 00:28:29

I think many of Bitcoiners

think it's a classic.

431

: 00:28:34

It was written in 2018.

432

: 00:28:36

It's made into a book now.

433

: 00:28:39

It's a really good, , book.

434

: 00:28:41

So, he talked about Bitcoin and

other money, and he went back to the

435

: 00:28:48

history of money, and what makes good

money, So, , yeah, to me, that was

436

: 00:28:54

the first article which actually gave

explanation in in terms of, like,

437

: 00:29:01

from their economics perspective.

438

: 00:29:05

Even though I didn't study economics.

439

: 00:29:09

Okay, but this, this seems really legit.

440

: 00:29:12

So after that, I still

continue on reading.

441

: 00:29:17

And then a few months later,

I, discovered the Bible.

442

: 00:29:22

It's called the Bitcoin Standard.

443

: 00:29:25

Which eventually I

translated into Japanese.

444

: 00:29:29

So, yeah, that book was a slap in the

face wow, it's the world I've been

445

: 00:29:36

living, the world I thought I knew,

but it's totally different story.

446

: 00:29:43

So I'm like, wow, I want to think about.

447

: 00:29:47

So that was when I started,

Falling into the rabbit hole.

448

: 00:29:52

Yeah, visually after that, or

like, during that time, like,: 2018

449

: 00:29:59

You know, my personality, if

I find something interesting,

450

: 00:30:02

then I I have to go all in.

451

: 00:30:04

So, that time, I would

rather read than eat or sleep.

452

: 00:30:08

So, my mom is like, here we go again.

453

: 00:30:11

And it was being terrible.

454

: 00:30:13

Like, she wouldn't eat, she

wouldn't sleep, she'd just read.

455

: 00:30:16

Yeah, so I was doing it for about a year.

456

: 00:30:19

I just I couldn't stop, I wanted

to know everything about Bitcoin.

457

: 00:30:25

So that was extreme time.

458

: 00:30:28

Tali: You know what I find

fascinating is that when the price

459

: 00:30:32

fell instead of rushing to sell

it you decided to read up on it.

460

: 00:30:37

Go through that period for

me because that's so unusual.

461

: 00:30:39

Most people will be like, oh my

gosh, I made a horrible mistake

462

: 00:30:42

I better sell it before it goes

to zero, but you didn't do that.

463

: 00:30:45

You went and

464

: 00:30:46

Teruko: Yeah, I mean, it was already, uh,

you know, it was already in a half price.

465

: 00:30:52

I'm like, at this point, it

doesn't really matter, right?

466

: 00:30:56

If I hold on to it, or if it

goes to zero, I mean, it's

467

: 00:30:59

just, you I just made a mistake.

468

: 00:31:01

I just have to own the mistake.

469

: 00:31:04

And a lot of people, I think it

just, they just don't want to even

470

: 00:31:08

hear about Bitcoin after going

through that experience, right?

471

: 00:31:12

But I really wanted to make sure that

I wouldn't take on the same scam.

472

: 00:31:17

I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't

allow myself if I fell.

473

: 00:31:21

Falling to the same scam.

474

: 00:31:23

So I really needed to know

how this thing will work.

475

: 00:31:27

Tali: that's interesting.

476

: 00:31:28

Did you do that with

other cryptocurrencies?

477

: 00:31:30

Did you experiment with them and

did you do the same studies into

478

: 00:31:33

them that you did with bitcoin?

479

: 00:31:35

Teruko: so yeah, , I mean, because two

days after I bought Bitcoin, it crashed.

480

: 00:31:40

So I didn't really have other

cryptocurrency at that point.

481

: 00:31:45

But when I was reading about

Bitcoin, of course you come across

482

: 00:31:50

other cryptocurrencies too, right?

483

: 00:31:52

And then because I was back then,

looking cryptocurrency as, you know,

484

: 00:31:59

almost like same as stocks, so I

was trying to pick the right one,

485

: 00:32:05

which would outperform others, right?

486

: 00:32:08

So yeah, I bought several,

or like, tons of altcoins.

487

: 00:32:14

eventually, eventually I realized,

oh, there's Bitcoin, it's money.

488

: 00:32:19

It's good money.

489

: 00:32:20

And then other cryptocurrencies it's

just a startup stuff like equity.

490

: 00:32:25

So I could differentiate, and then I

couldn't care less about those equities.

491

: 00:32:32

I was more interested in good money

and what the good money can do for

492

: 00:32:38

the society and the whole world.

493

: 00:32:41

So even though I came for the profit,

I just wanted to make money, I stayed

494

: 00:32:48

because I saw the possibility or the

potential of Bitcoin, which can actually

495

: 00:32:55

change the world for the better.

496

: 00:32:57

Yeah, because,

497

: 00:32:58

Tali: It's interesting that you

say the other cryptocurrencies are

498

: 00:33:01

like equity in a startup company.

499

: 00:33:03

I haven't heard it

describe quite that way.

500

: 00:33:06

So I'm really glad that you use that

term because that's what it really is.

501

: 00:33:11

It's centralized

502

: 00:33:13

Teruko: yeah, it's, they have,

well, I mean, they don't call it

503

: 00:33:16

a company, but they have what they

call themselves like foundations.

504

: 00:33:21

It's the same, right?

505

: 00:33:22

It's that they, you have the organization

which determines the fate of their

506

: 00:33:27

blockchain or the cryptocurrency.

507

: 00:33:30

So it's a company.

508

: 00:33:31

And then those people who are working on

are just members working for that company.

509

: 00:33:36

And then people who holds that

crypto is a shareholders, they

510

: 00:33:42

get to say what they think.

511

: 00:33:44

But, uh,, it's really up to the company

or the management to decide, right?

512

: 00:33:50

So it's, yeah, it's a startup company.

513

: 00:33:52

Tali: Yeah, it sounds like it was actually

really lucky that you bought Bitcoin and

514

: 00:33:58

two days later a crash So that's that

was actually a huge blessing for you.

515

: 00:34:02

Okay.

516

: 00:34:02

So now you're way down the Bitcoin

rabbit hole give us an idea of

517

: 00:34:06

how you then transitioned into

working in the Bitcoin space.

518

: 00:34:09

And then I wanna talk a little

bit about the Nostrville

519

: 00:34:13

Asia that you just came from.

520

: 00:34:15

Teruko: Yeah.

521

: 00:34:15

So when I was reading about Bitcoin,

I had so many questions, right?

522

: 00:34:23

Because I don't have math

or technological background.

523

: 00:34:28

So I started going to meetups to

meet Bitcoiners, to know about

524

: 00:34:33

Bitcoin, so I can ask questions.

525

: 00:34:37

And then of course when I go to

those Bitcoins, they are all male.

526

: 00:34:42

And then when I enter the room,

they're like, huh, are you lost?

527

: 00:34:47

This is Bitcoin meetup.

528

: 00:34:49

Like, are you lost?

529

: 00:34:52

Like, are you someone plus one?

530

: 00:34:54

I'm like, no.

531

: 00:34:55

I'm not plus one.

532

: 00:34:56

I'm not lost.

533

: 00:34:57

I'm here for Bitcoin meetup.

534

: 00:35:00

I'm like, huh.

535

: 00:35:04

Yeah, so I started going to this meetup

and then at one meetup, there were

536

: 00:35:09

a group of people who are actually

working to create a hardware wallet

537

: 00:35:15

made in Japan, a hardware wallet,

and then they had a prototype.

538

: 00:35:20

So, because I, my background is

product planning and marketing

539

: 00:35:25

in consumer market, right?

540

: 00:35:27

so I'm like, you, you

can't, this is, make this.

541

: 00:35:31

Like this, or like, not this

color, or this button, it's,

542

: 00:35:35

it's not like this, it has to be

this way, or something like that.

543

: 00:35:38

So I was giving irresponsible

opinion about their product.

544

: 00:35:45

And then they're like, yeah, they are

startup and then basically town now they

545

: 00:35:50

were still working for University, they're

professors at Stanford professors.

546

: 00:35:56

So there are like cryptographers So no

nothing of this Are you gonna be okay?

547

: 00:36:05

Like you don't know anything about

business like even though you come

548

: 00:36:09

out with really good product you have

to deliver that product to the market.

549

: 00:36:17

Otherwise they wouldn't

even know this existed.

550

: 00:36:20

So you need marketing person,

you need communication channel,

551

: 00:36:24

. And then they had no clue.

552

: 00:36:26

So, , yeah, I decided to join them.

553

: 00:36:29

So that was my first Bitcoin job.

554

: 00:36:32

And I was there for two, three years.

555

: 00:36:37

Yeah.

556

: 00:36:38

So that's how I got

started in this industry.

557

: 00:36:43

Tali: That's fascinating.

558

: 00:36:44

Isn't it so true that the inventor

usually is not the best person to

559

: 00:36:47

bring the product to the marketplace?

560

: 00:36:50

So you worked for that company for two

or three years, did you transition from

561

: 00:36:54

that point to where you are now or was

that there are other steps in between?

562

: 00:37:00

Teruko: No, it was from their startup to

the other side of the venture capital.

563

: 00:37:05

Tali: Mm-Hmm.

564

: 00:37:06

Teruko: Startup life is tough.

565

: 00:37:09

Like you, yeah, like I really

hate it when I have to talk to

566

: 00:37:14

venture capital, like, you know.

567

: 00:37:18

I know them saying no, it's part

of their job and nothing personal,

568

: 00:37:23

but still, it's, it's hard.

569

: 00:37:26

Tali: It hurts

570

: 00:37:28

Teruko: It hurts.

571

: 00:37:29

And then also the market cycle too, like

Bitcoin has a four year cycle, right?

572

: 00:37:34

And then when I joined them, it was 2018,

so , the bubble just bursted, so there,

573

: 00:37:42

it wasn't a good time to, , raise money.

574

: 00:37:45

I mean, it was a good time to build, but,

you know, I was, , constantly worried

575

: 00:37:49

about, , that, you know, a long way, like,

Oh, how much, how many months do we spend,

576

: 00:37:56

like, how many months do we go like this?

577

: 00:37:58

Yeah, it was so stressful.

578

: 00:38:00

Yeah, so, , yeah, from there,

I, we are joined to VC.

579

: 00:38:05

Tali: So when you started traveling

again, 'cause I know that you're not in

580

: 00:38:08

Japan right now, but when you started

traveling again, was that because of the

581

: 00:38:12

venture capital work that you're doing?

582

: 00:38:14

Or is that just a personal interest?

583

: 00:38:16

Like, I want to continue to

see the world kind of thing.

584

: 00:38:19

Teruko: So, now mainly it's for

conferences, so it's a part of the job.

585

: 00:38:24

But, , even before, like, when I was

working for the startup, I was traveling.

586

: 00:38:30

Mainly to see, I was really

fascinated with the idea of

587

: 00:38:36

Bitcoin circular economies.

588

: 00:38:38

So I wanted to visit them

and see what they are doing.

589

: 00:38:43

So I went to El Salvador and Guatemala.

590

: 00:38:46

Yeah, just out of curiosity,

nothing to do with the job.

591

: 00:38:51

Tali: As we were talking before,

there are circular economies

592

: 00:38:55

popping up all over the place.

593

: 00:38:56

I've personally talked to a bunch of

women who are with their own effort

594

: 00:39:01

with the local people trying to start

circular economies where they are.

595

: 00:39:05

It's absolutely incredible the amount

of work you have to put into convincing

596

: 00:39:09

the merchants to accept Bitcoin.

597

: 00:39:11

What have you observed around the world

in your work and also out of your personal

598

: 00:39:16

interest That you can share with us.

599

: 00:39:18

I mean, it could be just the

type of people who are working

600

: 00:39:21

on it or their differences,

601

: 00:39:24

Teruko: You mean they're, , specifically

about the circular economy, or?

602

: 00:39:29

Tali: uh, specifically

about the circular economy.

603

: 00:39:31

Yeah,

604

: 00:39:33

, Teruko: I think there are different ways.

605

: 00:39:36

Like the Bitcoin beach in Elva, El

Saba, though it's our bottom up, right?

606

: 00:39:43

So, but , it's a bottom

up grassroot movement.

607

: 00:39:47

But they had a funding, they had

an anonymous donor who gave them

608

: 00:39:53

a lot of Bitcoin so they could

start distributing Bitcoin to,

609

: 00:40:01

.

people living in the community.

610

: 00:40:03

So it's, I would say it's not

a typical, circular economy.

611

: 00:40:11

Because nowadays those, you know, other,

circular economy popping up around the

612

: 00:40:17

world are started by Bitcoiners who are so

into Bitcoin who want to change the world.

613

: 00:40:25

So they're actually using their own money.

614

: 00:40:29

And they are on time to convince,

yeah, like you said, educate merchants

615

: 00:40:35

and then building necessary tools.

616

: 00:40:39

So those are the grassroots,

bottom up approach.

617

: 00:40:45

But on the other hand, like,

Lugano city of Switzerland, where

618

: 00:40:52

you can actually pay, like you

can shop more than 200 stores.

619

: 00:40:59

, with Bitcoin, and you can even pay

tax or any city service in Bitcoin.

620

: 00:41:08

And then, you know, it's very different.

621

: 00:41:10

It's a top down approach.

622

: 00:41:12

So they have budget, and then

they can hire a company to make

623

: 00:41:18

like, costs to cater their needs.

624

: 00:41:21

So, basically Everybody accepts

Bitcoin, but because of the way force is

625

: 00:41:32

configured, the merchant have a choice.

626

: 00:41:37

Or they can choose how much

Bitcoin they want to keep once

627

: 00:41:42

they keep, once they get Bitcoin.

628

: 00:41:45

So some might want to just keep 5%.

629

: 00:41:49

Some might want to keep up, some

might want to keep all in Bitcoin.

630

: 00:41:54

But in reality, , everybody

chose to convert Switzerland

631

: 00:41:59

as soon as they get Bitcoin.

632

: 00:42:03

So no merchant wants

to hold on to Bitcoin.

633

: 00:42:06

Yeah, so that's the reality.

634

: 00:42:08

So yeah, different, different

types of circular economies.

635

: 00:42:11

I don't know which one would be good.

636

: 00:42:15

Top down seems very efficient.

637

: 00:42:18

If you just want to count the stores,

which accept the Bitcoin, but you

638

: 00:42:23

know, if you dig in, those people

are not really holding on to Bitcoin.

639

: 00:42:27

So, I don't know, like tax

wise, it's probably bottom up

640

: 00:42:31

will be eventually, , more.

641

: 00:42:36

Tali: well, that's really helpful.

642

: 00:42:38

I didn't know there were

these different structures.

643

: 00:42:40

Let's jump quickly to your

recent experience, Nostr Asia,

644

: 00:42:44

and it took place in Japan.

645

: 00:42:45

So very exciting.

646

: 00:42:47

Tell us a little bit

about what that was like.

647

: 00:42:50

Teruko: So Nostr Asia is

a conference about Nostr.

648

: 00:42:54

Nostr is not part of Bitcoin, but

Bitcoiners are very like, excited about

649

: 00:43:00

because bitcoin is a freedom money,

but uh, it's also freedom of speech.

650

: 00:43:06

Like other social networks service

like Twitter or Facebook or Instagram.

651

: 00:43:12

There are certain things you

shouldn't say otherwise you account

652

: 00:43:16

will be frozen, but Nostr because

it's not really decentralized.

653

: 00:43:20

It's like , you have many servers

where you can store your data, so.

654

: 00:43:26

If this one server decided to ban you,

there are so many others you can go to, so

655

: 00:43:31

you would never lose your profile, right?

656

: 00:43:34

So, that kind of freedom of

speech would appeal to Bitcoiners.

657

: 00:43:39

So, probably, if you see, overall,

it's probably 90 percent people Who

658

: 00:43:47

are on Nostr are somewhat related to

Bitcoin, if they're are Bitcoiners.

659

: 00:43:52

But in Japan it's different.

660

: 00:43:54

Japanese Bitcoiners still

hang out in Twitter or X and

661

: 00:44:00

not many people are on Nostr.

662

: 00:44:03

So those are Nostr, those are the people

who just like new stuff, so they found

663

: 00:44:09

out, oh, there is this new SMS we have.

664

: 00:44:14

Many of them are developers, and then

they found out it's so easy to build

665

: 00:44:20

an app on Nostr it's so flexible, so

they enjoy that experience, right?

666

: 00:44:27

So, Nostr Asia, even me, who actually

spoke Nostr Asia, didn't really Use Nostr.

667

: 00:44:40

Like, I had an account for a year already.

668

: 00:44:44

I'm not active.

669

: 00:44:45

So I don't know much about

Nostar, to be honest.

670

: 00:44:51

So there are I would say, oh, We

probably had close to 700 people

671

: 00:44:58

coming to conference over in total.

672

: 00:45:01

And it was four days long.

673

: 00:45:03

And then probably 60, 70 percent

of people are visiting Bitcoiners.

674

: 00:45:13

And then 3 to 40 percent local Japanese

Nostar users, plus a bit of Bitcoiners.

675

: 00:45:20

So, the talks are very different from

what you'd hear at Bitcoin conferences.

676

: 00:45:29

Even though people who

are speaking are the same.

677

: 00:45:33

So, they are Bitcoiners, but they

also are excited about Nostar.

678

: 00:45:38

So, on the stage, they try

to focus on Nostar, but they

679

: 00:45:43

didn't talk much about Bitcoin.

680

: 00:45:45

Which was, I think, which was

good, because those Japanese

681

: 00:45:49

Bitcoiners, , no, Nostar users,

Not necessarily Bitcoin, France.

682

: 00:45:57

, Actually some of them hate Bitcoin.

683

: 00:46:00

, when they found out Zap which is

the tipping service on Northstar

684

: 00:46:05

is using Bitcoin technology,

they were so disappointed.

685

: 00:46:09

And then they wanted to make

alternative version of tipping

686

: 00:46:13

function, not using Bitcoin.

687

: 00:46:16

So they hate Bitcoin that much.

688

: 00:46:20

So it was, , for me, it was interesting,

but I'm like, you know, , there

689

: 00:46:25

are so many Bitcoiners and then you

can't avoid talking about Bitcoin.

690

: 00:46:30

It's a freedom pet.

691

: 00:46:32

And then those people who actually

like Nostar because it's free, then

692

: 00:46:38

they should be interested in Bitcoin if

they know what Bitcoin is really about.

693

: 00:46:44

So I tried to orange pill Japanese

Nostar users during Nostar

694

: 00:46:51

Asia, but it didn't go well.

695

: 00:46:54

Like I couldn't, I couldn't

orange pill anyone.

696

: 00:47:00

Tali: why do they hate Bitcoin so much?

697

: 00:47:03

Teruko: Because so Japan used to

be like Tokyo used to be the center

698

: 00:47:09

of Bitcoin scene back being like

until like: 2017

699

: 00:47:17

CJ the C the founder of Binance

lived in Tokyo and Roger Burwell.

700

: 00:47:23

So in Tokyo.

701

: 00:47:25

The world's first Bitcoin

meetup was created in Tokyo.

702

: 00:47:30

Everybody was in in Tokyo.

703

: 00:47:33

So it was big.

704

: 00:47:34

And then, a lot of people bought

Bitcoin around the same time as me.

705

: 00:47:41

So like 2017 bubble.

706

: 00:47:43

And a lot of people lost money,

you know, after bubble bursted.

707

: 00:47:49

So they had some negative feelings

about Bitcoin through that experience.

708

: 00:47:55

Or, people who didn't even

buy Bitcoin heard about so

709

: 00:48:00

many bad things about Bitcoin.

710

: 00:48:02

Like, when Mt.

711

: 00:48:04

Gox filed bankruptcy, I still

remember seeing on national

712

: 00:48:10

television network, saying that the

CEO of Bitcoin company was arrested.

713

: 00:48:18

. It was just one, I mean

huge, but one exchange.

714

: 00:48:23

But people couldn't differentiate

between Mt Gox and then Bitcoin

715

: 00:48:27

as an open source network.

716

: 00:48:30

So, yeah, I guess that image was

embedded back then and is still

717

: 00:48:35

lingering aroundin their head.

718

: 00:48:38

They couldn't shut off.

719

: 00:48:39

So still when I talk to Japanese

friends or family members, I

720

: 00:48:46

wouldn't say I work in Bitcoin because

then I have to start explaining.

721

: 00:48:52

So I would just say, yeah, I'm in tech.

722

: 00:48:54

I'm in fintech.

723

: 00:48:56

Tali: Even though we had that bubble

burst eventually the price came back up

724

: 00:49:00

but I guess by that time they weren't

really paying too much attention

725

: 00:49:04

because they were traumatized so

726

: 00:49:05

Teruko: much?

727

: 00:49:05

Yes.

728

: 00:49:06

So the last one 20, was it 2021?

729

: 00:49:10

Yeah, the price, they reached

new all time high, right?

730

: 00:49:15

But not many people paid attention.

731

: 00:49:19

I'm assuming because they already

dismissed Bitcoin as a scam.

732

: 00:49:25

Or some people who secretly wanted to

have a Bitcoin so they could enjoy the

733

: 00:49:32

price bump, but they didn't, so they

were kind of bitter about it, too.

734

: 00:49:37

Yeah, I don't know which, but I still,

yeah, and then even like recently,

735

: 00:49:42

, Bitcoin price is going up, right?

736

: 00:49:43

It's not making new all time high,

but it's close enough, especially

737

: 00:49:48

when you look at the chart in

Japanese yen which has depreciated

738

: 00:49:53

massively in the last few years.

739

: 00:49:56

So, it's so close, but still not

many people are talking about it.

740

: 00:50:00

Tali: you also mentioned that in Nostra

Asia the Developers really love the

741

: 00:50:06

zapping capability of tipping each

other they didn't know what SATs

742

: 00:50:10

were And then they found out that

it was operating on a Bitcoin base.

743

: 00:50:14

Instead of looking to Bitcoin and

why it's the base that's on Nostr

744

: 00:50:19

they created their own version

745

: 00:50:21

Teruko: they tried to, I don't know

if they succeeded, but yeah, they

746

: 00:50:24

talked about how we can go without

using Bitcoin network, hello.

747

: 00:50:31

Yeah, and then even some of

them, I personally talked during

748

: 00:50:36

Nostr Asia, said, so now they

are okay using Lightning Network.

749

: 00:50:42

So there are, it tends to be

like researching how Lightning

750

: 00:50:48

Networks work and which is fine.

751

: 00:50:51

And then, some of them are

even running Lightning Node.

752

: 00:50:54

So when they say, yeah,

I run Lightning Node.

753

: 00:50:57

I'm like, then you are

also running Bitcoin Node.

754

: 00:51:01

But they don't want to do it.

755

: 00:51:02

I mean, they don't want to say it.

756

: 00:51:03

And then I wouldn't.

757

: 00:51:05

This isn't there to say, but, , yeah,

I don't know why, but they said,

758

: 00:51:09

yeah, Lightning Network is cool,

but I just don't care about money.

759

: 00:51:15

Like, money, it's good or not.

760

: 00:51:17

So, I'm not interested in

learning about Bitcoin.

761

: 00:51:20

Tali: So would you say that the

Bitcoin movement in Japan is not

762

: 00:51:26

very robust or is it just isolated

incidents with these developers?

763

: 00:51:30

Teruko: No, no, that's

the overall impression.

764

: 00:51:33

Uh, I have a dedicated website, which

is just a collection of Japanese Bitcoin

765

: 00:51:39

educational materials, but, uh, yeah,

it's, care about Bitcoin, because,

766

: 00:51:42

I mean, you can probably relate, S.

767

: 00:51:43

is probably the same, you about

Bitcoin, but, , yeah, it's there,

768

: 00:51:45

but it doesn't get a lot of traffic.

769

: 00:51:45

People just don't care about

Bitcoin, because, I mean, you

770

: 00:51:48

can probably relate, the U.

771

: 00:51:48

S.

772

: 00:51:49

is probably same, you , everything

works, people have credit card,

773

: 00:51:54

people have bank account, they have

their own payment network, and

774

: 00:51:59

then they get points for discount.

775

: 00:52:01

I mean, they don't need Bitcoin,

which is actually a blessing.

776

: 00:52:07

So, I mean, if they don't need it,

good for you, you are the lucky ones.

777

: 00:52:15

Tali: Yeah.

778

: 00:52:15

I just had the same conversation with

my son yesterday at the dinner table

779

: 00:52:19

and I could see as I was talking,

his eyes rolling because he's just

780

: 00:52:23

not in that stage of life where it's

important yet, he's relatively young

781

: 00:52:27

And so yeah, all we can do is make the

material available and hope that one

782

: 00:52:32

day they will find their own way there.

783

: 00:52:34

Teruko: That's also a good

thing about Bitcoin, right?

784

: 00:52:37

It's just there as an option.

785

: 00:52:40

I mean, either opt in or opt out,

it's entirely up to that person.

786

: 00:52:45

That's freedom.

787

: 00:52:46

That's flexibility.

788

: 00:52:48

It's just an option.

789

: 00:52:49

Tali: Scott and I talked a lot about that.

790

: 00:52:51

All we can do is share the knowledge

we have so that people can make

791

: 00:52:56

informed choices because right now I

feel like they're making choices But

792

: 00:52:59

they don't have the whole picture.

793

: 00:53:00

Like what you were saying when

you started reading the Bitcoin

794

: 00:53:03

Standard you realize that

everything you knew wasn't true.

795

: 00:53:08

Everything you grew up

believing wasn't true.

796

: 00:53:10

So Yeah, that's my only goal is just

to give people the full picture.

797

: 00:53:15

Teruko: Yeah, but I also have to warn

people who are gonna be into Bitcoin

798

: 00:53:21

that once you see the world through

Bitcoin lens, you can't unseen, your

799

: 00:53:28

perspective it has changed 180 degrees.

800

: 00:53:33

If you wish, you can't go back

to the way you were before.

801

: 00:53:39

So, you might lose some friends,

you'll be in different situations, so.

802

: 00:53:45

Yeah, because sometimes I'm like, like,

can I just go back to happy fiat life.

803

: 00:53:52

It was so much easier.

804

: 00:53:56

But you can't unsee.

805

: 00:53:57

So yeah,

806

: 00:53:58

Tali: Well, that's exactly why.

807

: 00:53:59

Yeah, that's exactly why I've

created that retreat, because

808

: 00:54:03

we do see things so differently.

809

: 00:54:05

And it's frustrating that the rest

of the world doesn't see what we

810

: 00:54:08

see, and that can be really draining.

811

: 00:54:10

You know, that could be really fatiguing.

812

: 00:54:12

Okay, so to wrap up, what would

you say to a woman who's still

813

: 00:54:16

sitting on the fence about Bitcoin?

814

: 00:54:18

Teruko: I actually don't have the

advice because that's the question

815

: 00:54:22

I've been always asking myself, how

can I get more women to Bitcoin?

816

: 00:54:28

How can I get more women to my

bitcoin meetup then I actually

817

: 00:54:34

don't have an answer, so I

don't know what's stopping them.

818

: 00:54:38

I've been hosting a Bitcoin meetup

in Tokyo for five years, and

819

: 00:54:43

usually I'm the only woman there.

820

: 00:54:46

And then people don't realize I'm a

woman because it's just all guys, and

821

: 00:54:52

you kind of have to blend in too, right?

822

: 00:54:55

I mean, I'm not trying to be, but

I guess I'm, by now, I'm like one

823

: 00:55:00

of them, like I'm like a dude.

824

: 00:55:02

So, I don't know what's

blocking women's minds.

825

: 00:55:09

I don't know what's their role.

826

: 00:55:12

One thing, yeah, like you

said, women are busy, right?

827

: 00:55:16

, with so much to do.

828

: 00:55:18

They don't have, , enough

time for themselves.

829

: 00:55:21

So Why they should spend that time

on Bitcoin studying Bitcoin and I

830

: 00:55:33

I can't like I can't shove orange

pill into their mouths right they

831

: 00:55:37

have to realize they have a problem.

832

: 00:55:40

Once they know they have a problem then

they will start looking for solutions

833

: 00:55:46

and they might stumble on to Bitcoin.

834

: 00:55:48

But if they are living in a

perfect world I don't think those

835

: 00:55:54

people will never discover Bitcoin.

836

: 00:55:57

Yeah, so I don't know.

837

: 00:55:59

I don't have the answer.

838

: 00:56:00

I don't have a good advice.

839

: 00:56:02

Tali: so true that until they

have a problem they need to solve,

840

: 00:56:06

Teruko: yeah.

841

: 00:56:07

Tali: and it's fine.

842

: 00:56:08

one idea I have is like the

home parties for selling stuff

843

: 00:56:12

So they have it for jewelry.

844

: 00:56:14

They have it for recipe books They have

it for Tupperware and Bible study and

845

: 00:56:19

things and I think there's something

to the intimacy of somebody's home that

846

: 00:56:24

is just different from a Bitcoin meetup

per se so That's sort of the way that

847

: 00:56:31

I'm trying to figure out how to get

more women to just invite two or three

848

: 00:56:36

friends to their home and open up.

849

: 00:56:39

And then instead of saying, let

me tell you about Bitcoin, because

850

: 00:56:43

then the people won't show up.

851

: 00:56:46

Maybe we say something like

come over and we'll play games.

852

: 00:56:51

Because people still do that.

853

: 00:56:53

They get together, they play games.

854

: 00:56:54

That hopefully then opens up the

conversation because we kind of have

855

: 00:56:57

to do it in a roundabout way if we just

go in guns blazing like do you know

856

: 00:57:04

what is wrong with the fiat system?

857

: 00:57:06

They're gonna be like, oh

You're gonna try to preach to me

858

: 00:57:09

Teruko: conspiracy theorist.

859

: 00:57:10

Tali: Yeah.

860

: 00:57:11

Yeah.

861

: 00:57:11

Yeah.

862

: 00:57:11

Yeah.

863

: 00:57:12

So yeah I mean I've been thinking

a lot about it because I do see in

864

: 00:57:17

America too that most women are just

going about their daily lives, either

865

: 00:57:22

they don't need it or they're so busy

trying to survive they don't have time

866

: 00:57:27

to stop and think of other alternatives.

867

: 00:57:30

Teruko: Right, right.

868

: 00:57:31

That's true too.

869

: 00:57:33

Yeah, I think the people we want to reach

who need Bitcoin actually don't have time.

870

: 00:57:40

It's just, they're so busy.

871

: 00:57:42

So I'm actually starting

a podcast next month.

872

: 00:57:46

And

873

: 00:57:47

Tali: Are you?

874

: 00:57:48

Good for you.

875

: 00:57:48

Tell me

876

: 00:57:49

Teruko: I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean,

it's gonna be in Japanese, and then

877

: 00:57:53

It's gonna be the hidden agenda.

878

: 00:57:56

Of course, Bitcoin, but I'm

not gonna talk about Bitcoin.

879

: 00:58:00

the title doesn't include Bitcoin.

880

: 00:58:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

881

: 00:58:03

So it's about, it's about money.

882

: 00:58:05

Like people love money,

so it's about money.

883

: 00:58:10

Tali: Good for you.

884

: 00:58:11

Yeah.

885

: 00:58:12

Teruko: Yeah.

886

: 00:58:12

So this podcast is actually based

on that We use, do you know the my

887

: 00:58:18

first Bitcoin, the El Salvador yeah.

888

: 00:58:22

So, , yeah, we eventually gonna

translate that textbook into

889

: 00:58:27

Japanese, but it's such a big book.

890

: 00:58:30

It's gonna take time.

891

: 00:58:31

So, in the meantime, we

gonna start this podcast.

892

: 00:58:35

It's gonna be just 15 minutes.

893

: 00:58:38

Once a week, we're going

to update once a week.

894

: 00:58:41

So it's not overwhelming at all.

895

: 00:58:44

And we just go through

the textbook bit by bit.

896

: 00:58:49

It's basically me and then other guys.

897

: 00:58:52

So the other guy is like a newbie.

898

: 00:58:55

He just started Bitcoin.

899

: 00:58:56

So he asks me questions and

then I answer, kind of thing.

900

: 00:59:00

And then we try not to use the word

901

: 00:59:02

Bitcoin

902

: 00:59:04

Tali: we

903

: 00:59:04

Teruko: Let's see,

904

: 00:59:04

Tali: all different ways.

905

: 00:59:05

Yeah.

906

: 00:59:06

Teruko: Yeah, you don't just

have to hide our intention

907

: 00:59:11

Tali: Yeah, actually, I was talking to

I know I was talking to Rachel Geyer

908

: 00:59:17

in Germany and she was saying how if we

were to have a wellness retreat, and we

909

: 00:59:24

don't say Bitcoin retreat, we just say

wellness retreat, women would flock to

910

: 00:59:28

it because everybody's about wellness.

911

: 00:59:30

And then once they arrive, then you say,

well, there's different kinds of wellness.

912

: 00:59:33

You have your health wellness, you have

your emotional wellness, and oh, by the

913

: 00:59:37

way, you have your financial wellness.

914

: 00:59:39

Let's talk about Bitcoin.

915

: 00:59:40

But of course we want to

cover all the other areas.

916

: 00:59:42

So in that way you can attract

newbies in and have a way to

917

: 00:59:48

connect the ideas together.

918

: 00:59:50

So I go, that's very sneaky,

but I think it might work.

919

: 00:59:54

You know,

920

: 00:59:54

Teruko: Yeah, but I think

we have to be sneaky.

921

: 00:59:57

Tali: we have to be sneaky.

922

: 00:59:58

I know.

923

: 00:59:59

I just think that women have a lot of

power to influence through the home,

924

: 01:00:02

like through the living room, I always

keep going back to the living room.

925

: 01:00:05

So I just feel like we have a lot of power

and we're just starting to collectively

926

: 01:00:11

work together because the men have been

working together for over a decade.

927

: 01:00:15

And so I feel like their network

is really strong, but the women are

928

: 01:00:19

literally just starting to step forward.

929

: 01:00:22

So as much as I can, I want to try

to get us together face to face

930

: 01:00:27

and not necessarily to talk about

what's going on in technology or

931

: 01:00:33

even politically, but just how do we

communicate to other women in the way

932

: 01:00:40

that only women can to spread the idea?

933

: 01:00:43

And when, if you listen to some of

the men talk, they would say, if

934

: 01:00:47

things get bad, we're just going to

leave, I'm going to pick up my family.

935

: 01:00:50

We're going to leave.

936

: 01:00:51

Well, that's great for you,

but what about the rest of us?

937

: 01:00:55

We can't just pick up and leave.

938

: 01:00:57

You know, my kids aren't

going to come with us.

939

: 01:00:59

I have to stay here.

940

: 01:01:00

We got to fight the battle here and

the only way that I know how is to

941

: 01:01:05

get women to work the women's network.

942

: 01:01:10

Do you know, I don't know if you guys

have this in Japan, but there's a

943

: 01:01:13

organization called mad, M A D D and

it's mothers against drunk driving.

944

: 01:01:18

It's a coordination started by a mom

of somebody who was killed by a drunk

945

: 01:01:23

driver and it's a bottom up grassroots

kind of movement against drunk driving.

946

: 01:01:27

Mops is another one.

947

: 01:01:29

Mothers of preschoolers.

948

: 01:01:31

That's a very, very strong

network and and there're

949

: 01:01:33

mops organizations everywhere.

950

: 01:01:36

you can't go to a city in the US and

not be able to find several mops groups.

951

: 01:01:41

So kind of like that.

952

: 01:01:42

If we can do something through

the home like that for money

953

: 01:01:48

education, maybe not even Bitcoin

education, but just money education

954

: 01:01:53

Teruko: money in general,

955

: 01:01:54

Tali: Yeah, then then we have a chance to

spread the wildfire, you know, that's my

956

: 01:01:59

Teruko: Yeah.

957

: 01:02:01

uh, yeah, I think, , in general,

especially in the last few years,

958

: 01:02:06

uh, Um, you know, like last year,

this year, people are suffering from

959

: 01:02:10

inflation and then many people are

wondering why you suffer, right?

960

: 01:02:15

We are working at the same amount

of time and we are getting even we

961

: 01:02:20

are getting raise, but somehow your

life is much more difficult that

962

: 01:02:26

you can't even keep up with bills.

963

: 01:02:28

So people are starting to question why.

964

: 01:02:32

People just haven't found what's

causing that yeah, so I guess now,

965

: 01:02:38

the timing wise, it's, it's good.

966

: 01:02:41

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

967

: 01:02:44

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

968

: 01:02:48

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

969

: 01:02:53

The meetup link is in the show notes.

970

: 01:02:55

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

971

: 01:02:59

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

972

: 01:03:03

Until next time, bye!