Episode 78

Aimee - "No amount of philanthropy is going to solve college affordability issues."

Podcast Show Notes: Aimee's Bitcoin Journey

In this episode, we'll delve into Aimee's personal journey of discovery and transformation through Bitcoin, from initial encounter to becoming a passionate advocate.

Episode Highlights:

  • Skepticism and Intrigue: It all began with a Fast Company article that left Aimee intrigued by the concept of digital money.
  • Years of Ignorance: Bitcoin faded into the background, but in 2020, Aimee's family's investments reignited her curiosity to take a deeper look.
  • The Learning Journey: To invest, Aimee wanted to be knowledgeable. She embarked on a journey of learning, taking courses, reading, and tuning into Bitcoin-related podcasts.
  • The 'Aha' Moment: Aimee realized that Bitcoin was something she could own, immune to government control. It aligned with her values of personal freedom.
  • Spreading the Knowledge: Aimee started sharing Bitcoin with family and friends, and even her less tech-savvy mom embraced the idea.
  • Hope and Empowerment: Bitcoin gave Aimee hope in a world marred by economic disparities and government overreach.
  • Reevaluating Higher Education: Aimee's perspective on higher education shifted as she realized that the fiat system needed fixing before college affordability could improve.
  • Changing Academia: Bitcoin has the potential to reshape academia by introducing sound money principles across disciplines, creating a culture of financial literacy.

Aimee's journey into Bitcoin has been a path of enlightenment, hope, and empowerment. It's not just a digital currency; it's a catalyst for change that can reshape our financial systems, our education, and our world. Embracing Bitcoin means embracing a future where personal freedom and financial stability are attainable realities. Tune in for an inspiring story of transformation and hope through Bitcoin.

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

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Transcript
Tali:

Hi, everyone.

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Welcome to Unchattered.

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Today, you're listening to a

conversation I had with Aimee.

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Aimee, thank you so much for coming

on to Orange Hatter today and

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sharing your Bitcoin story with us.

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Welcome.

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Aimee: Well, thank you.

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Thanks for having

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Tali: me.

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Can you tell us a little bit about

your background so our audience can

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get to know you a little bit better?

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Aimee: sure.

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I mean, I work in higher education,

my background, um, from, you know,

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My education is in science, but I

work in fundraising and higher ed.

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Tali: And you mention that you move

around quite a bit, during the year.

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Where are you right now?

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Aimee: I'm in Colorado at the moment.

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Um, just dropped, , my younger son at

college and, , You know, I have two boys

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that are in college now and so I'm trying

to spend more time with my parents who are

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getting older and going to be working from

Vermont, Wyoming and Mexico this next year

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with like probably some trips to Nashville

where my older son is at interspersed

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in and other trips to Colorado as well.

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Tali: Very busy.

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can you tell us a little bit

about how you came across.

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Bitcoin, , and what

the circumstances were.

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Aimee: So actually the very first time

I heard about Bitcoin was in the early

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days when it first came out, I think it

was a fast company, um, article about it.

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And the whole thing just seems so weird,

like, like how could you just create

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like a digital money and it would be,

valuable or that people would buy into it.

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And so, and then I, then there were years.

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That I didn't ever even think of Bitcoin.

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I just kind of knew it existed, but

it didn't come up in my life at all.

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And then in 2020, I realized that my

dad with extra money that he had had

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bought, he bought Bitcoin, Ethereum,

and a whole bunch of other stuff.

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And, um.

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And that both of my boys, who, you

know, were still in high school

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at the time had bought Bitcoin.

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And so that kind of intrigued me

and I started looking more into it

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and I thought, well, if I'm going

to buy Bitcoin, I really want to

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understand what it is and how it works.

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And, um.

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I had been during the whole COVID time

gravitating toward Libertarian podcasts,

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and it had been coming up in those, and

there was a course that was advertised

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that was about Bitcoin, so I actually

took that course, which was really just

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listening to, you know, three different,

I think, sessions with someone explaining

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it, and there's, looking back, there's

so, I should re watch those sessions,

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because there were so many things that

he mentioned that, I didn't know anything

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about it at the time, and then I took

another course, and then I started

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reading, and then I followed the What

Bitcoin Did podcast, and I learned a

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lot from that podcast, and it just kind

of folded out from there, and I think

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the moment that really, it clicked for

me, and the big moment for me was when

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I realized that Bitcoin was something

that I could hold, that no one, including

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the government, could take away from me,

that I could actually sovereignly own it.

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That was huge.

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Tali: Yeah that's that's a huge

draw for every single Bitcoiner.

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What was your first impression

when you came across it again?

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Other than the fact that your family

members were investing in Bitcoin?

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Was there any like, what was your

number one doubt about Bitcoin at

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that time that you had to overcome?

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Aimee: Yeah, you know, I don't think

that I had huge doubts about it.

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I mean, I didn't come to it with a lot

of skepticism like a lot of folks do.

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I kind of had this open mind

toward it and, and just had

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a lot of curiosity about it.

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Um, probably, you know, just harking

back to that article I remember

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reading and some of the, the

questions I had about how can it be

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like, A currency, you know, a money.

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I mean, I just, uh, I'd never thought

of money except for this thing

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that was issued by the government.

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And I'd never really

thought about money period.

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And so to start, you know, delving into

what money was and how money started, and

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you know that money was backed by gold

and then all the things that have happened

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since and the petrodollar and, um, you

know that we can essentially, with the U.

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S.

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dollar with our fiat

currency print energy.

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I mean, I guess that's the rabbit hole

I went down and because I have these,

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I guess, libertarian kind of tendencies

and freedom is really important to me.

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Um, it just, it.

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It immediately resonated with my values.

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So I didn't, I don't think that I

had a lot of skepticism to overcome.

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It was just, I had never

really delved in before.

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And because my dad and my boys owned

Bitcoin, that was the thing that made

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me want to go and learn more about it.

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Cause I thought, well, I

want to get some Bitcoin too.

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And, but I definitely didn't want to

buy something I didn't understand.

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Tali: That's really smart.

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That's really smart.

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So once you learned about Bitcoin,

what was it like trying to share

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it with other people in your life?

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It sounds like your, your family

was already investing in Bitcoin.

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Was it easy to talk to them about

the values that are incorporated?

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I mean, there's Bitcoin, the thing

that they buy, but then there's

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Bitcoin, the protocol, like the

whole ecosystem surrounding it.

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What was it like trying to talk

to them about the ecosystem?

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Aimee: yeah, I think that my sons and

my dad owned it with the idea of the

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number go up like, you know, it was

during the time that it was really,

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hitting its all time high, um, before

the bear market and so I think that's

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really all they were thinking about.

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And, and so, as I was learning, um, I was

sharing with them and my dad, I mean, I

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think part of why freedom is so important

to me has to do with the values that

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my dad, has passed along to me And so

sharing with him that, that you could own

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it sovereignly and the freedom aspects.

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I mean, he, he kind of

like got that immediately.

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And I think that also my kids are pretty

indoctrinated with the importance of

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freedom from both their father and I.

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And so it wasn't actually hard

talking to my family about it.

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My mom, who's probably the least

technical or, you know, the least, um,

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to be like delving into that world.

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I remember we had a long

layover in an airport and I had

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become obsessed with Bitcoin.

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It was basically all I could think about.

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And I wanted to just, I was just

consuming and learning more and

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learning a whole bunch of that time.

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And I shared with her and after two

hours sitting at, this restaurant

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at the airport, she's like,

well, how do I buy some Bitcoin?

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And so, and then, and, you know, I told

her how you could buy a KYC and non

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KYC and the different ways to, hold it.

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Um, so, both my parents own

Bitcoin now, not just my mom.

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And I've also convinced my dad to

get rid of all of the other tokens,

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including Ethereum, because he now

understands the whole difference.

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Uh, and it's all Bitcoin now.

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And, I got them in cold storage, you know,

and have moved them along quite a way.

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But they haven't been the hard ones.

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It's, it's like friends.

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That I bring it up with and I have a whole

bunch of friends in the freedom community

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that I don't, I think maybe they think

we're going to go back to a gold standard

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or that, you know, somehow the internet is

going to go down or electricity is going

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to go down for eternity and we're going

to all be living caveman style again.

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And they, they are very hard

to convince, um, but I do, talk

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with them about like the, yeah.

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Possibility of the CBDC and the, you

know, Bitcoin is your escape hatch and

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we live in a digital world and, you know,

I know that we're used to things being

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very hackable and, very Fragile kind

of in the digital world, but Bitcoin is

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different because it's decentralized and

really the only way to shut it down is

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if, all of the computers that are running

nodes across the world are shut off

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forever and that that's just not likely.

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It's highly, highly, highly improbable.

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And so, they're going to want a currency

that they can, um, use digitally.

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In our world, and not get

trapped in a CBDC, which I hope

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doesn't occur or gets rejected.

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But of course, you want to plan and

have something to have an alternative.

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So that's kind of how I've orange pilled

my freedom friends, my kind of more

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for lack of a better word, normie

friend group, their reaction is

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often like, Bitcoin, like that's,

uh, that uses a bunch of energy, and

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it's really bad for the environment.

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I get that all the time.

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I also get, um, it's not

real it's fake money.

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Um, And I also get, um, well, that's only

for like criminals and money launderers,

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of course, then I have to like explain a

lot and I try not to overwhelm them and

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I do it in little bits here and there and

kind of say, if you want to learn more,

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just let me know, and they do at their

own times, then they will come back to

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me and be like, I really do want to learn

more and I've helped some Bitcoin meetups

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in Vermont with my friends and, and

then just have many, uh, a conversation

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over a beer or, or a dinner with people.

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So I'm actively orange pilling

everybody in my sphere.

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Tali: Yeah.

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And sometimes it's very rewarding and

a lot of times it's very frustrating.

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Aimee: Yeah.

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I would say that initially I didn't

have a lot of patience and I get

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very like kind of frustrated.

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And, defensive of Bitcoin.

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And I realized that if I was going

to bring people into Bitcoin, I had to

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be very patient and also kind of let

them come to me when they were ready

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after giving them, you know, some

juicy little tidbits here and there

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that might be intriguing and kind of

knowing my audience, like what was

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intriguing to my, my more liberal set

of friends is that no, it's actually.

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Really good for the environment and

it could be a huge, way for us to, to

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build a renewable energy infrastructure.

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And it also is able to, um, use energy

sources that would otherwise be wasted.

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So I kind of work on that environmental

aspect with them and then my freedom

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friends, I mentioned the CBDC.

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So it's kind of knowing your audience

and what's going to intrigue them

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and get them to want to know more.

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Tali: Yeah, you, you mentioned the word

freedom several times, in regards to

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your friends, your dad, your husband,

I feel like there's a story there.

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Why is freedom such a big value for you?

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Aimee: Um, well, my dad, he was, uh, he

owned several businesses, he was a general

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contractor, and I feel like he always was

feeling like the state and the federal

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government were just like putting too

much on him as a, an employer and taking

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too much of what he was earning and he

was always kind of resentful of that.

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And, um.

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And he would also say things like you

really don't own your house because

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if you don't pay your property taxes,

the government can take it from you.

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Um, and, so he was always kind of

railing against the system in that way.

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And then my ex husband was, a

huge, uh, pro medical marijuana,

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anti state kind of person.

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And so, I think that I

had, a lot of, like...

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Freedom inclinations from those two

influences and then during COVID, I,

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I guess that's really when the light

for me, uh, because as my background,

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I said, was in science, my doctorate's

in microbiology and molecular genetics.

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And when I saw the response to COVID,

it just, it didn't make any sense to me.

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And then, as soon as the

government was like, we're going

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to shut down for two weeks.

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I'm like, it is not going to be two weeks.

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This is like, a lot of the

freedom grabs they did after 9 11.

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I mean, I remember noticing that back

then, all the freedoms we were losing.

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And, I've been practically resentful

of going through TSA every time

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I have since, which has been many

and thinking it's ridiculous.

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We're still like doing

some of these things.

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And so I was thinking, you know,

it's not going to be two weeks.

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It's going to be a very long time and

then Vermont was extremely, extremely,

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um, what's the word for it, uh, compliant.

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They were very, very compliant.

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And so I felt so alone because

I was the only one looking

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around saying, this is insane.

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This is not how you, how you should

react and deal with a respiratory virus.

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Everybody's eventually going to

get this no matter how much we lock

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down and how long we lock down.

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It's a respiratory virus.

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and, you know, because it was this small

thing that people couldn't see it was

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just so fear driven and it was the same

thing with 9 11 after 9 11 the whole fear

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narrative around, um, terrorism, and it

was just used to take people's freedoms

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away and, and our government, I feel, I

felt ever increasingly since then is,

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it's just become like a cancer on our

country and we've just our government has

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gone further and further away from the

values that this country was founded on.

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And, um, so COVID, I think just

woke up the freedom and love for the

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freedom lover in me, um, in a huge way.

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And, um, Here I was in Vermont, like, one

of four people that weren't complying.

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I did find four other people and we met

weekly to keep our sanity during COVID.

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It was just, it was rough.

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And now, but now we have a really kind

of a, I would say, a much more robust,

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like, what I call our freedom community.

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And we're all networked together and

I helped start an organization that

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helped get us networked together.

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Um, And so should that happen

again, the, the minority won't

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feel so alone in Vermont.

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We'll have each other.

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Hopefully that kind of thing

doesn't happen again, but you

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know, it's probably likely.

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Tali: Yeah, that's, that's a

can of worms that we can, we go

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in there, we'll never come out.

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Um, so going back to Bitcoin, since going

down the bitcoin rabbit hole, what are

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the different areas of your life that

you have started to look at differently?

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Aimee: well, I would say from a

financial, uh, point of view, I

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have, since acquired Bitcoin through

various means, mining, KYC, non

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KYC, to the degree that I feel like

a sense of comfort going forward

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into the future and a sense of hope.

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And, and you hear a lot about the word

hope, uh, connected with Bitcoin and,

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um, I think that's what it's given me,

especially after the very dark time of

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COVID where, it was so easy to go down

the other rabbit hole of, of all the,

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the kinds of things that might be coming

down the pipeline that, you feel hopeless

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and you feel powerless and Bitcoin makes

you feel hopeful and like you have some

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power, And it's, it's very much changed my

outlook, for my work, um, as we mentioned

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before we started recording, I work

in higher education and access to higher

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education is very important to me, but

it's changed my outlook because now I

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realize with our fiat currency and our

debt, I mean, things are so broken and,

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and, you know, with The vast majority

of people that have gotten poorer and

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poorer versus the 1 percent of the 0.

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1 percent that have gotten richer and

richer, like this chasm is just, it

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can't be, um, fixed at this point

with anything, I think, but Bitcoin.

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And until, things come back into balance

with people tending toward Bitcoin as

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a sound money and as a base layer to a

new financial system, the folks that I

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work with, I don't think that they're

just going to be able to change their

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lives by attaining a college degree.

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I think that, they're working within

a system that's so broken that that

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system needs to be fixed first.

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So, I mean, I really would like to

work in some capacity with a Bitcoin

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only company I'm going to a lot of

conferences and building relationships

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with people, and I kind of feel like...

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You know, if you build the opportunities,

it'll eventually come or maybe

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I'll have to start my own thing.

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But, um, I feel like I got, like

I got one foot out of the higher

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education world because it's

kind of like burst the bubble.

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It's made me feel like my job that won't

make a difference because this isn't

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where fundraising to make college more

accessible doesn't matter when the fiat

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system has screwed things up so badly.

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You know, I guess the other thing,

Tali, I would add is that, working in

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philanthropy, the other realization

I've had is that the people that are in

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a position to make large philanthropic

gifts have benefited, they've been on

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the benefiting end of the fiat system.

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And to me, it's so appalling

now to realize that, like.

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Now they're giving that money back to

the other people that they essentially

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stole it from whether they were, they

weren't like wittingly doing that, but

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they, but that is essentially the reality.

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And now they're giving it back to

them with conditions and it just, , it

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just has made me lose so much.

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So much of the inspiration of what

originally drove me and my work

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and in fundraising in higher ed

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Tali: So using your imagination

anything is possible scenario What

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would you like to be able to do to

help with higher ed in the future?

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Like anything is possible using Bitcoin or

assuming Bitcoin is part of the picture.

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Aimee: Um, well, I mean,

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if anything was possible, I

think like changing the economic

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majors and departments at higher

ed would be really important.

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You know, they're all Keynesians

pretty much with the occasional

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outlier who is an Austrian economist.

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And as you know, the economics

departments really just back up the

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current system, the current fiat system.

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And so, if anything was possible, it would

be orange filling those folks for 1st.

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But then also, seeing more academics

who are orange pill, then understand

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it in general from all different

disciplines, I think would be helpful.

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I mean, anything from journalism, um.

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To, uh, computer science, there's so many

areas that if we had people that were

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orange pilled, um, it would really, I

think, change the trajectory of students

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and the careers And the opportunities.

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Tali: So I have four kids who are

college age and we have this debate

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in our living room a lot, which is,

is there a place for gen ed classes?

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most colleges today are requiring

two years of general ed.

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we debate back and forth

on the pros and cons of it.

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That it's two full years of your life.

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It's two years of education,

living expenses, all that

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stuff, all added together.

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maybe they could be done

in a more efficient way or

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a different way altogether

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The price tag is really high.

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And if you think about the fiat

system, you know, when we talk about

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the money supply, one of the things

that I never considered was the fact

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that it was being swelled through

student loans, it just like in my mind,

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student loans and money supply were.

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It's like two completely separate things.

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That's what's happening.

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The student loans, the massive amount

of student loans are contributing

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to the swelling of the money supply,

which is diluting the value of our

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money right through inflation.

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And so it's like a double whammy

for people who are going to

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college trying to better themselves

to try to go for a better life

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something secure, something stable.

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But in the process of that, taking out

student loans, we're diluting the value

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that's already in our pocket and what

they will earn in the future as well.

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It's this weird kind of spiraling, like

mutually feeding phenomenon going on.

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Aimee: Yeah, I totally agree.

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And I think that, um, are a lot

of things that are, I guess we

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could say broken about higher ed.

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I mean, the fact that they have becoming

more and more administratively top heavy.

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The fact that it's an antiquated

system where you have to come

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together physically in a classroom

for teaching and learning to occur.

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That there's so many other resources and

ways that people could be learning that

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are completely free and on the Internet.

328

:

I mean, and, you see a lot of

smaller colleges are going under.

329

:

And I think that's a, that's just a

natural consequence of our changing world.

330

:

And, um, that'll probably continue

to happen with, colleges that

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:

don't have, big endowments.

332

:

Tali: One of the other things that I

never considered until I heard somebody

333

:

talk about it was the fact that different

majors should charge different tuition.

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:

Because you, if you have a

creative writing major, why is

335

:

she paying the same tuition as a.

336

:

Computer science or engineering student

major, because they require much more

337

:

expensive equipment and set up than

somebody who's just showing up with

338

:

her laptop typing versus a philosophy

student who's also just showing up

339

:

to a lecture hall and debating each

other, they don't require special

340

:

building equipment set up nothing, but

they're paying the same tuition rate.

341

:

And when they graduate, the engineers,

the computer science people, they're

342

:

going to get are in the higher salary,

these writing, philosophy majors,

343

:

they're going to be the poor ones, right?

344

:

They're most likely their income is going

to be lower, but they're paying back

345

:

the same amount of student

loans, and obviously the building

346

:

of the interest, and then the

inequality starts from that point.

347

:

Because once you get into debt, it's,

it's a downhill, not even a spiral, like

348

:

what they call, you push The car over

the hill and it just picks up speed going

349

:

down, but they're already going downhill

when they graduate because they pay the

350

:

same amount, same student loans, same

interest, but one is going to be able

351

:

to earn money faster to pay that down.

352

:

And the other one's going

to be stuck in there.

353

:

So immediately.

354

:

Yeah,

355

:

Aimee: yeah, no, I completely agree.

356

:

And I mean, as part of why,

uh, the college I work for is.

357

:

It's very much about access

and affordability and, if my

358

:

personally, if my kids had to

take on debt to go to college.

359

:

I would be having a different

conversation with them, but I figure.

360

:

I might as well spend that fiat currency

now, because I would also say that

361

:

even two years of gen eds, I mean, I

completely agree with you, but on the

362

:

other hand, colleges, it plays a role

in our society and in the development

363

:

of young people, but it doesn't have

anything to do with like the academics

364

:

and the classroom piece of it as well.

365

:

So, and I think that well,

my one son is in music, and I

366

:

think that that's an area where.

367

:

He really develop that through repetition

and playing with better musicians

368

:

and learning from better musicians.

369

:

So he's getting a very different education

than say my younger son will get.

370

:

Um, but yeah, I wouldn't have

them doing what they're doing.

371

:

They were going to go into

372

:

Tali: a lot of debt.

373

:

Yeah.

374

:

And then we go into the

whole legacy system, right?

375

:

Like the people who can afford it

without the debt versus the people who

376

:

can not afford it without the debt.

377

:

And, there are so many.

378

:

And the thing is, it's compounding too.

379

:

So if you go, it's sort of like

that analogy with a car being pushed

380

:

over the hill, it's compounding when

you're going down your life's journey.

381

:

If you start out with a ton of

debt versus not a ton of debt.

382

:

Right.

383

:

Yeah, right.

384

:

Aimee: No, I will readily admit that to

a small degree, I, of course, am on the

385

:

end that has benefited from the fiat

system the system we're in right now.

386

:

And I, and I, Bitcoin has

been useful in reflecting on

387

:

that in my own life for sure.

388

:

But, what I want is

sound money for everybody.

389

:

So everybody can have.

390

:

A higher time preference.

391

:

And, um, did I get that right?

392

:

The higher time preference

of a good quarter,

393

:

Tali: uh, lower time, prefer a lower time

394

:

Aimee: preference.

395

:

I'm sorry.

396

:

Why I always confuse that in my head.

397

:

Um, a lower time preference and they

can save and have hope for the future.

398

:

I mean, that's what I

really want for everyone.

399

:

And to get back to a more balanced system

where the disparities between this very

400

:

small group that's amassing wealth and

this very large group that is going over

401

:

the cliff and their car is that those

are brought back into balance and we

402

:

have a middle class again and people can

take pride in their work because that's

403

:

the other thing about my work is like.

404

:

At some point I have to realize that no,

no amount of philanthropy is going to

405

:

really solve the college affordability

issue overall, just like no amount of

406

:

social safety net programs are really

going to, fix the ills of our society.

407

:

Uh, it, it really all goes back to,

to the money and fixing the money.

408

:

And that's why Bitcoin gives me hope.

409

:

And of course, I think all the developing

countries and the third world that you

410

:

don't have to convince that the utility of

Bitcoin will get there first and get there

411

:

last because, until we can no longer

just print energy with our money, a lot

412

:

of people aren't going to see, uh, they're

going to be too, um, too advantaged by it.

413

:

Right.

414

:

The role that the US dollar

plays in the world right now

415

:

to see the utility of Bitcoin.

416

:

Tali: Yeah, I'm definitely Understanding

that more and more and the crazy thing

417

:

is I really consider myself an educated

person until I enter the Bitcoin space

418

:

and then I I realized that I was so

ignorant and I knew nothing and since

419

:

entering the Bitcoin space, I've spoken to

people from literally all over the world

420

:

and just understanding or just talking

to them and getting the sort of the

421

:

first person account of what's happening

on the ground in those countries with

422

:

the money inflation that is happening.

423

:

Something that we have not

experienced on this end and very

424

:

hard to imagine how they're coping.

425

:

And so when I talk to people who are

doing okay, they are not in crisis mode.

426

:

And.

427

:

You know, obviously, if you're talking

to somebody in crisis mode, that's

428

:

a different conversation in America.

429

:

But if you're talking to people who are

not in crisis mode, it's exceptionally

430

:

difficult to convince them to take a look

at Bitcoin as a money standard, not as a

431

:

trading vehicle, an investment vehicle.

432

:

So I have definitely found

that to, be our experience.

433

:

So the question is how do

we reach the young people?

434

:

People our age, people who have

lived a career or part of a career

435

:

have seen recessions come and

go and all the rollercoaster

436

:

rides that the economy has taken.

437

:

We can look back and if we're willing

to look, we'll see the problems.

438

:

For the young people, your children,

my children, they're just at the

439

:

beginning of the rollercoaster

ride and they're looking forward.

440

:

So the question is, how do we

convince young people to critically

441

:

look at what they are entering, the

financial world that they are entering.

442

:

What do you think?

443

:

Aimee: Well, I guess I think

that, That maybe we don't have to

444

:

convince as many people as we think.

445

:

I mean, I have learned so much about

Bitcoin and Bitcoin has made me

446

:

reflect on so much, but I'm not sure

that everybody needs to do that.

447

:

I mean, part of the lightning network

really gives me a lot of hope because

448

:

I see that as something that people

end up using and they'll use it

449

:

because it's a better system, not

because they understand Bitcoin.

450

:

And, you know, just like people use email

and they don't understand how it works,

451

:

but they use it because it was better

than having to write something out by

452

:

hand, put it in an envelope, address it,

put a stamp on it, and then, get it to

453

:

the post office or put it in the mailbox.

454

:

Um, it's the same thing I think with

the lightning network and I have a lot

455

:

of hope as that gets built out that.

456

:

Um, Hopefully that I mean, that

will be adopted and used by people.

457

:

And at some point, they might reflect

that it runs on Bitcoin rails and but

458

:

they don't necessarily need to go down

the rabbit hole and become orange pill.

459

:

To be users and I guess, um, the

participants in the Bitcoin network.

460

:

Tali: So really quickly, in your own

words, how would you explain to someone

461

:

new to the Bitcoin space, the difference

between Bitcoin and the Lightning Network?

462

:

Aimee: Yeah, I mean, I, I use

the phrase that the Lightning

463

:

Network is a second layer, um,

that that runs on top of Bitcoins.

464

:

I use the bar tab analogy and explain

the difference between the time that it

465

:

takes for a transaction to settle on the

base layer of Bitcoin on the blockchain

466

:

versus the time it takes to settle it

hence the name lightning at the speed

467

:

of light on the lightning network and

its final settlement and I talk about

468

:

the fees and that this could replace

Visa and MasterCard and it's, yeah.

469

:

So I, I explained it as a, a second

layer running on the Bitcoin layer,

470

:

but then very quickly go to kind of the

nuts and bolts of like, just imagine

471

:

you have a bar tab and you're charging

things all night while you don't,

472

:

your lightning node is like a bar tab

and you don't close out your bar tab

473

:

until you're not using it anymore.

474

:

And it's the same thing with a node, but,

maybe even with a node, like your bar tab,

475

:

you close out at the end of the night, a

node you might leave open indefinitely.

476

:

Yeah.

477

:

Unless it's forced closed.

478

:

. Right.

479

:

So, right.

480

:

Tali: Um, I was trying to explain

the fees to my daughter, the one that

481

:

finally decided that she was convinced.

482

:

, and, between college friends, if they

go out to eat or if they grab an Uber,

483

:

they would just Venmo each other.

484

:

Right.

485

:

It is like no big deal.

486

:

Yeah.

487

:

One time, my son as a joke, he,

he and his friends decided to Venmo

488

:

each other back and forth like

four or five times the same meal.

489

:

because they thought it was hilarious.

490

:

I'll give you 40.

491

:

No, I'm going to give it back to you 40.

492

:

And at the end of that, he came

home and he told me what happened.

493

:

And I said, do you understand how

much fees you paid while you're

494

:

playing that joke with your friend?

495

:

You know, I, what, what is Venmo like 2.

496

:

7 percent or something like that?

497

:

Every time you send money,

you're being charged.

498

:

Do you understand that's happening?

499

:

They didn't realize that

was what's happening.

500

:

Cause it's just a, it's not even

the swipe of a credit card anymore.

501

:

It's just.

502

:

Right.

503

:

It's, it's a touch button.

504

:

So I was showing it to my daughter

and I said, I said, look at this.

505

:

Somebody bought something

and we run a store.

506

:

And so somebody bought something and 2.

507

:

9 percent of that amount went

to the credit card company.

508

:

Now I'm going to send you 5 to your

Muun wallet, and that's, that's

509

:

the lightning network through that.

510

:

The lightning part of the moon

wallet, moon wallet also has a

511

:

Bitcoin side, but so I sent it to

her and I said, look at that fee.

512

:

Cause it, it tells you it was

like 25 sats or something.

513

:

I said, that's not even

a fraction of a penny.

514

:

And I send it to you.

515

:

Now, if you has, if I had

sent you 5 through Venmo, I

516

:

would have been charged 2.

517

:

9%.

518

:

5, 2.

519

:

9 percent of 5 is not a big deal,

but what if I send you 5, 000, right?

520

:

Now we're starting

to pay attention, right?

521

:

And it's just something that,

that they don't think about

522

:

because it's just numbers.

523

:

They don't see them on touch the money.

524

:

You know, somebody said if we had,

if all of our income was like wheat

525

:

in the field and they were put into

a wagon and every time we were taxed

526

:

or we had to pay a fee, it came from.

527

:

The wheat that they removed from our

wagon, there will be a revolution

528

:

because people's eyes will be opened

to what's actually happening right now.

529

:

They're just numbers that

are just moving all around.

530

:

And it's just, if you don't pay

attention, it accumulates so fast

531

:

and you don't even realize it's gone.

532

:

It's gone to the banking institution

or the routing system or whatever

533

:

it is that they want to call it.

534

:

But the fees are sucked out of the

money that you work so hard to earn.

535

:

And then just, yeah, here and there,

just, you know, just sucked out,

536

:

Aimee: use that.

537

:

And I feel like young people just accept

fees as that's just part the cost of doing

538

:

business or just part of their world.

539

:

They just accept it if, if they

were to wake up to the fact that

540

:

through Lightning, they don't

have to be giving up that value.

541

:

I think that could be huge.

542

:

And I think that's huge

for retailers too, right?

543

:

I mean, they really, I think, notice

it because they're paying a lot.

544

:

If they're accepting credit card

payments, they're paying a lot

545

:

to the credit card companies.

546

:

And I was even explaining to my

massage therapist, like, it'll be

547

:

great when you can, if you can take

lightning payments, because then you

548

:

won't be paying these credit card

fees and you'll be paying fractions.

549

:

Pennies on the dollar, and she

was very interested in that.

550

:

And I was explaining that, , one method

for onboarding retailers to, um, the

551

:

lightning network that's out there is,

the whole idea of the retailer offering

552

:

a discount of some portion of those fees

back to the customer to incentivize them

553

:

to use the lightning network for payments.

554

:

Yeah, I can't wait till it

dematerializes Visa and MasterCard

555

:

and that whole infrastructure.

556

:

And then also, we'll talk to my kids

about the centralized versus decentralized

557

:

nature of, the traditional financial

system versus Bitcoin, and why that is

558

:

so important to being able to censor

or shut down, Bitcoin, whereas like

559

:

with Venmo, it seems like, A very

similar digital money is digital money.

560

:

Right.

561

:

But then you explain like, well,

they can just do what they want

562

:

and they could just cut you off.

563

:

Tali: Yeah, definitely.

564

:

So I have a story so my husband's uncle

was running a bookstore and he was selling

565

:

through, I think it was eBay at the time.

566

:

This was a few years back and eBay was

sending money to his PayPal account

567

:

. That's how he, he would pay his bills with

it and he would receive payments with it.

568

:

It's basically his bank.

569

:

PayPal was his bank and somebody

filed a complaint against him

570

:

because of whatever reason.

571

:

And his eBay store was

immediately shut down.

572

:

His PayPal account was completely

shut down and he had no access

573

:

to any money just like this.

574

:

His entire livelihood was shut down.

575

:

He could not buy groceries.

576

:

He couldn't pay his electric bill.

577

:

And it's, you think the

money is yours, but it's not.

578

:

Aimee: No, I mean, it's a similar

thing with like the Canadian

579

:

truckers rally just, amplified even

more if government gets involved.

580

:

You know, if they bring their full

power and force to bear on the financial

581

:

system, yeah, your money isn't your money.

582

:

It's it can be gone like that or

frozen or, it can just disappear.

583

:

Tali: Yeah, for sure.

584

:

Um, any last suggestions,

recommendations for women who are

585

:

sitting on the fence about Bitcoin?

586

:

Aimee: I would say just get off zero.

587

:

It's so funny how I have several friends

who I feel like have the knowledge.

588

:

They, attest to me that they've

been orange filled and they believe

589

:

in Bitcoin, yet they can't somehow

take that final step to purchase it.

590

:

So, you know, no matter what the means

is, you know, like purchase a little,

591

:

some Bitcoin and get off zero, quit, quit.

592

:

Tali: I talked to someone the other day

and she said, one day, there's going

593

:

to come a day when you want to buy a

Bitcoin and there's going to be non

594

:

available because it's not unlimited

like everything else out there.

595

:

It is a limited, I mean, she was so

good at creating that sense of urgency.

596

:

Even I was listening to

her recording afterwards.

597

:

I was like, Oh my gosh, she's right.

598

:

I got to go buy some more Bitcoin.

599

:

Aimee: I know that that is a good tactic.

600

:

And I'm, and they're like, but Bitcoin is

so down, you know, from its all time high.

601

:

And I'm like, yeah, that, that

means it's a great time to buy.

602

:

Tali: Right.

603

:

It's on sale.

604

:

Aimee: Right.

605

:

It's on sale.

606

:

This is a wonderful time to

607

:

Tali: buy.

608

:

Exactly.

609

:

When I went down to 16, I was

like, oh my gosh, what else

610

:

can I sell around my house?

611

:

So I can go buy

612

:

Aimee: some 100%.

613

:

Yeah.

614

:

Tali: Yeah.

615

:

Well, I want to thank you again

for spending time with us and

616

:

for sharing your story with us.

617

:

It was wonderfully fun for me.

618

:

Thank you so much.

619

:

Well,

620

:

Aimee: thank you.

621

:

Thanks for reaching out.

622

:

And I'm just honored

to be on your podcast.

623

:

I really appreciate

624

:

Tali: it.

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About the Podcast

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Orange Hatter
Woman-to-Woman Bitcoin Conversations

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About your host

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Tali Lindberg

"Hello everyone, I'm Tali! If you had met me a few years back, you'd have found me in the thick of homeschooling my four incredible kids. That was my world for two decades, filled with lesson plans, school projects, and a whole lot of beautiful chaos. But once they all graduated, a new and unexpected journey began for me - in the world of Bitcoin.

The spark was lit by my husband, nudging me towards this peculiar thing known as Bitcoin. At first, I resisted. After all, the complexity of Bitcoin was intimidating and my plate was already quite full. But he persisted, and even went as far as creating a bitcoin-mining board game, HODL UP, to teach me what it was. Before I knew it, I was orange-pilled, and my curiosity was piqued. What started as a casual dip of my toes soon turned into a fascinating dive into Bitcoin. Like my homeschooling journey, I took it slow, one baby step at a time, learning and adapting as I delved deeper.

Fast-forward to today, I am absolutely thrilled to share my Bitcoin adventures with all you amazing and busy women out there through this podcast. I've made sure the episodes are bite-sized and easy to follow, perfect for your coffee breaks or while running errands. My goal? To share my experiences and the experiences of other women in Bitcoin in an engaging, easily digestible way. Don't let time constraints or technical jargon stop you from diving into Bitcoin. As your friendly guide, I hope to provide a grounded, relatable perspective to help you navigate the Bitcoin rabbit hole. So, here's to us exploring this thrilling digital frontier together!