Holly - "The fiat system had a very damaging effect on women."

Speaker: 00:00:00

Hi, everyone.

2

: 00:00:01

Welcome to Orange Hatter

Today, you're listening to a

3

: 00:00:03

conversation I had with Holly.

4

: 00:00:05

Tali: Thank you for

joining me today, Holly.

5

: 00:00:08

It's amazing to have you with us.

6

: 00:00:10

And I can't wait to find out

more about your Bitcoin story.

7

: 00:00:14

Holly: Of course, and I just

want to say thank you very

8

: 00:00:17

much for inviting me as well.

9

: 00:00:18

It's a real pleasure to talk to you today.

10

: 00:00:21

Yeah, I feel honored to be able to share

my story with you and your listeners.

11

: 00:00:24

It's so necessary what

you're doing, I think.

12

: 00:00:28

I love the philosophy behind it.

13

: 00:00:30

Tali: Let's start with your background?

14

: 00:00:33

Can you tell people a

little bit about yourself?

15

: 00:00:35

Holly: Yeah, sure, of course.

16

: 00:00:36

My name is Holly.

17

: 00:00:38

I'm originally English, obviously.

18

: 00:00:39

I live now in Portugal,

in the south of Portugal.

19

: 00:00:42

And I'm the mother to

two beautiful daughters.

20

: 00:00:46

Both of them, well, for

sure, my older one, Akiva.

21

: 00:00:49

in Bitcoiner herself, my younger

one, you know, we get there, we have

22

: 00:00:52

quite some Bitcoin conversations.

23

: 00:00:55

Yeah, I've been living here

in Portugal for a while now.

24

: 00:00:58

It's a place with a fairly active

Bitcoin community, so that's

25

: 00:01:01

a real pleasure to be around.

26

: 00:01:03

Yeah, my background, goodness.

27

: 00:01:05

Originally English, haven't lived

there for a long, long time.

28

: 00:01:08

I once did a DNA test and I think I have

one of the most boring sets of DNA of

29

: 00:01:12

anybody on the history of this planet.

30

: 00:01:13

I'm like 94 percent English

Irish, so, you know, no mixing, no

31

: 00:01:18

interesting mixes in there whatsoever.

32

: 00:01:21

So...

33

: 00:01:22

That's, that's pretty much my background.

34

: 00:01:24

Professionally, I had a

very academic background.

35

: 00:01:27

I have a PhD in classical history.

36

: 00:01:29

Then following my PhD, I decided that

I didn't want to stay in the academia

37

: 00:01:33

for lots of reasons and being now I

kind of dived in the world of bitcoin,

38

: 00:01:37

I'm so glad I didn't, really part of

the anatomy of the state, as they say.

39

: 00:01:41

So I took my research skills into the

non profit world and I'm well aware that

40

: 00:01:46

many people would say that's not that

much better than the universities, but I

41

: 00:01:50

became very specialized in counter radical

extremism, so in layman's terms counter

42

: 00:01:56

terrorism, but not in the law enforcement

capacity, more in a prevention capacity.

43

: 00:02:00

That's more or less my background.

44

: 00:02:02

Tali: So what brought you

to Portugal specifically?

45

: 00:02:06

Holly: Portugal specifically Yeah,

I'm always somebody, I've, I've

46

: 00:02:09

travelled around a lot and I've

lived in a lot of different places.

47

: 00:02:13

I've lived in Italy I lived in the

Netherlands for, for a long, long time.

48

: 00:02:17

Portugal I came to, I came to learn

of through my ex partner who was

49

: 00:02:23

very passionate about Portugal, loved

Portugal, and the fact is that it does

50

: 00:02:28

have, it's a country with quite some

attractions for a Bitcoiner as they're

51

: 00:02:33

very Bitcoin friendly, so there's no

capital gains tax on cryptocurrency

52

: 00:02:38

in general at the moment in Portugal.

53

: 00:02:41

That might change of course, I've

written a few articles about that

54

: 00:02:44

very thing for Bitcoin magazine.

55

: 00:02:47

And everything really fell into place

for me personally great school for my

56

: 00:02:51

daughter, a very beautiful place, a

place where my and her outdoor lifestyle

57

: 00:02:58

is very much welcome and accommodated.

58

: 00:03:01

There's everything one could,

one could want here really.

59

: 00:03:04

Yeah, I love Portugal and it's

been quite the journey to get

60

: 00:03:07

to move here, but we've made it.

61

: 00:03:09

And I'm really, really glad that we did.

62

: 00:03:10

Really, really glad that we did.

63

: 00:03:12

Since I moved here, I've myself

been quite committed to building

64

: 00:03:15

a Bitcoin community around myself.

65

: 00:03:18

I host regular Bitcoin meetups in my area.

66

: 00:03:21

I'm not the only person doing that.

67

: 00:03:23

There's quite a Bitcoin

community here, so it's lovely.

68

: 00:03:26

And I give education sessions for any

businesses around me that want to learn

69

: 00:03:32

how to transact and save in Bitcoin.

70

: 00:03:35

What I've been busy doing just on a

voluntary basis just for fun for a while

71

: 00:03:39

Tali: That sounds like fun.

72

: 00:03:40

So you said that Portugal is very

Bitcoin friendly, and that there's

73

: 00:03:45

no capital gains tax, which I love

because I'm in the US, ummm, taxes.

74

: 00:03:51

In what other ways is

Portugal Bitcoin friendly?

75

: 00:03:54

Holly: Well, I mean obviously you have

that tax incentive about Portugal and

76

: 00:03:59

that's attracted certain people certain

kinds of people I would come at that

77

: 00:04:04

question from two angles really you've

got the people who have moved here to take

78

: 00:04:09

advantage of that and that meshes very

much with the fact that Portugal is a bit

79

: 00:04:13

of a hub for digital nomads in general.

80

: 00:04:16

Interestingly, I meet a lot of

people who work online here,

81

: 00:04:19

who have their own businesses.

82

: 00:04:21

So that's one side of it, but

there's another side of it as well.

83

: 00:04:24

I think.

84

: 00:04:25

And I'm not even totally sure historically

how this evolved, but Portugal, and

85

: 00:04:30

specifically the area of Portugal that

I'm living in, seems to have attracted,

86

: 00:04:34

for quite some time attracted, a

very kind of, what I would describe

87

: 00:04:37

as a freedom minded crowd of people.

88

: 00:04:40

So I think even in the 60s and 70s,

there was quite a hippie movement here.

89

: 00:04:43

Or not the 60s, of course, because that

was, then it was still under dictatorship,

90

: 00:04:47

but certainly following the dictatorship.

91

: 00:04:51

A group of people seem to have moved

here who in general are quite free

92

: 00:04:56

spirits and the idea of freedom

and individual sovereignty is

93

: 00:05:02

certainly not an alien idea here.

94

: 00:05:04

There's a lot of homeschooling

here, there's a lot of interest

95

: 00:05:08

in, alternative diets to what,

what you might call the standard

96

: 00:05:11

American diet or people raising their

children in quite unconventional ways.

97

: 00:05:16

In general, it's quite a freedom minded

community, and I would definitely say

98

: 00:05:20

that there's a natural affinity between

that kind of community and Bitcoin.

99

: 00:05:25

You know, once you start introducing

people who've been thinking in that

100

: 00:05:28

kind of way for, perhaps, for all

their lives, having been raised by

101

: 00:05:32

the kind of hippie community that

emigrated here in the: 1970

102

: 00:05:37

is a very natural marriage for them.

103

: 00:05:39

It's a very natural progression.

104

: 00:05:41

The idea of uncensorable money,

money which is out of reach of the

105

: 00:05:45

governments, is a very attractive idea.

106

: 00:05:48

Tali: Well, since I'm a

homeschooler, something you

107

: 00:05:50

said just really caught my ear.

108

: 00:05:52

You said that they raise

children unconventionally there.

109

: 00:05:55

What does that mean?

110

: 00:05:57

Holly: Yeah, goodness, it's a bit

difficult to explain exactly what I mean

111

: 00:06:02

by that without showing you where I live.

112

: 00:06:05

it's so beautiful here, Tali,

and it's, it's very safe.

113

: 00:06:09

In general, it's incredibly safe.

114

: 00:06:12

There's a huge amount of sports.

115

: 00:06:14

So a lot of the kids they surf and

if you're into horse riding or Hiking

116

: 00:06:20

or just spending time on the beach.

117

: 00:06:23

It's a very free lifestyle in that sense.

118

: 00:06:25

Certainly by comparison to Amsterdam,

which is where I moved from.

119

: 00:06:29

You know, , there's just a lot of

outdoor activity and a lot of quite

120

: 00:06:33

like minded parents who can share

a bit on on the homeschooling idea.

121

: 00:06:39

Yeah, it's a great place to it's

a great place for kids to be

122

: 00:06:42

Tali: It sounds that way.

123

: 00:06:43

I wish I could actually

look out your window.

124

: 00:06:46

It sounds absolutely amazing.

125

: 00:06:49

So If the, parents are all very

freedom minded and they're homeschooling

126

: 00:06:55

kids, is it a pretty easy quote

unquote sell to tell them about

127

: 00:07:00

Bitcoin and for them to get on board?

128

: 00:07:03

Or is there still something that they

would need to kind of get over before

129

: 00:07:08

they become involved in Bitcoin.

130

: 00:07:10

Holly: I mean Well now we're talking

about parents and homeschooling groups.

131

: 00:07:14

I have not had that much contact

with people in that capacity it's

132

: 00:07:19

not that I'm Trying to orange

pill Homeschooling parents.

133

: 00:07:23

It's been more that I've connected

with businesses in my area but for

134

: 00:07:28

sure in general, it's, it's definitely

a community that has a fairly natural

135

: 00:07:32

affinity towards Bitcoin and the, the

businesses which I've been trying to,

136

: 00:07:37

to orange pill in this area, it's a good

success rate, you know, really, I talk

137

: 00:07:41

to people who sell their wares in this,

this very kind of unconventional way.

138

: 00:07:46

But in general, I would definitely say

this is a community that is very freedom

139

: 00:07:51

minded and very much Bitcoin inclined.

140

: 00:07:55

Yes.

141

: 00:07:56

Yes, that is a short answer.

142

: 00:07:58

Tali: That is so unusual because most

people I talked to, they are facing a

143

: 00:08:01

completely different kind of reception.

144

: 00:08:04

So that's really exciting for you.

145

: 00:08:06

So let's back up way to the beginning.

146

: 00:08:09

When you first heard about Bitcoin.

147

: 00:08:11

What happened there?

148

: 00:08:12

And what was your first reaction to it?

149

: 00:08:15

Holly: So I first heard about

Bitcoin through my then partner.

150

: 00:08:19

And we discussed it, and I think,

you know, like so many people,

151

: 00:08:26

I did first come to it as, for a

number go up, basically, thinking,

152

: 00:08:32

This could be an interesting way

to think about and save money.

153

: 00:08:36

But quite quickly I started to learn,

started to attend a lot of Bitcoin events.

154

: 00:08:41

started to get very interested in the

kind of whole philosophy around it.

155

: 00:08:45

I mean, at the time, the events were

not just Bitcoin, they were blockchain.

156

: 00:08:50

And it took quite some time for me, for

us to kind of separate the wheat from

157

: 00:08:57

the chaff, as it were, and to figure

out that these events that we were going

158

: 00:09:00

to Not all of them, not all events were

valuable, that some of them just did not

159

: 00:09:06

resonate with me at all, or definitely had

me feeling very curious about why anybody

160

: 00:09:12

would want to put that kind of information

on the blockchain, which, which started

161

: 00:09:16

a kind of snowball process of thinking,

well, what makes Bitcoin special then?

162

: 00:09:21

And then really starting to learn about

money, and I was shocked at the time by

163

: 00:09:25

how little I knew actually about money.

164

: 00:09:28

And having been exposed to quite some

talks about about that and about the

165

: 00:09:34

kind of early phases of Bitcoin and also

starting to read some books about Bitcoin.

166

: 00:09:40

We mentioned the Bitcoin Standard,

for example that book really spoke to

167

: 00:09:44

me deeply as a historian incredibly

interesting to see, for me, the

168

: 00:09:49

progression of what makes good money.

169

: 00:09:52

That book put those issues in terms

which I'd never seen it before.

170

: 00:09:56

And it was a real learning experience.

171

: 00:09:58

And that started to really change the

way that I thought, not just about

172

: 00:10:02

money of course, but about, well, the

whole spectrum of things that money

173

: 00:10:06

affects, basically every aspect of life.

174

: 00:10:09

Yeah, I think that was the progress of it.

175

: 00:10:12

And I started, yeah, just, just going

further and further down the rabbit

176

: 00:10:15

hole, and also learning much more

about, diet, for example, the way we

177

: 00:10:20

interact with one another, the effect

that fiat money has had on our society

178

: 00:10:26

and on relations between genders on our

view of the future, which I, I do feel

179

: 00:10:32

as a parent is especially relevant.

180

: 00:10:35

It had me questioning everything.

181

: 00:10:36

I think that's a fairly common

Bitcoin comment really, isn't it?

182

: 00:10:40

Once you started asking questions

about Bitcoin, you start asking

183

: 00:10:43

questions about everything.

184

: 00:10:45

Tali: Yeah, that's definitely a very

common feeling that people have.

185

: 00:10:49

So there are several things I

want to go back and visit again.

186

: 00:10:52

You mentioned diet several times.

187

: 00:10:54

So how has that Changed you and

you had also mentioned that the

188

: 00:10:59

people in Portugal eat differently.

189

: 00:11:03

So can you comment on both

of them yourself and then

190

: 00:11:06

also just Portugal in general?

191

: 00:11:08

Holly: For sure.

192

: 00:11:08

I mean, I was vegetarian for a long,

long time, most of my life actually

193

: 00:11:13

until I got pregnant and during both

of my pregnancies, I really craved meat

194

: 00:11:20

and it was a real moral conundrum for

me because I didn't want to eat meat.

195

: 00:11:25

I really love animals and I remember

going to see my midwife and saying,

196

: 00:11:29

look, I'm really craving meat and her

saying to me, if that's what you're

197

: 00:11:32

really craving, you should definitely

eat it because the baby needs it.

198

: 00:11:36

And taking the decision to, to start

eating meat while I was pregnant I

199

: 00:11:40

think that was a really good decision.

200

: 00:11:42

At a certain point, I really left

the vegetarianism behind and started

201

: 00:11:48

experimenting with carnivore also for

all kinds of family reasons around me.

202

: 00:11:54

So the other people in my family

at the time were also carnivore.

203

: 00:11:58

And I also thought it was very

important not to be disloyal to

204

: 00:12:02

her but especially for my younger

daughter who has a real tendency

205

: 00:12:06

towards sweet stuff, as I do as well.

206

: 00:12:09

Goodness, I'm a real natural sugar addict.

207

: 00:12:12

And so that took quite some giving up.

208

: 00:12:14

I was also incredibly shocked when I

tried to give sugar up the first time.

209

: 00:12:19

I was genuinely, deeply shocked

by the withdrawal symptoms

210

: 00:12:23

that I had during this process.

211

: 00:12:25

Withdrawal symptoms along the lines

of which I've only ever associated

212

: 00:12:30

with, I don't know, stories of

people giving up narcotics and stuff.

213

: 00:12:33

I mean, really profound cravings.

214

: 00:12:36

Oh, physical symptoms, headaches, sweats.

215

: 00:12:40

Obsessing over sugar now I've

actually gone back to, so I went

216

: 00:12:45

really cold turkey on sugar for a

while, and I didn't eat it at all.

217

: 00:12:50

Now I find that I can

eat it in moderation.

218

: 00:12:53

So I think I've kicked the addiction so

now I can manage to kind of I can, , I

219

: 00:12:58

allow myself a little bit of chocolate

220

: 00:12:59

once in a while, especially

when I have my period.

221

: 00:13:01

But other than that, you know, I,

I try to at least limit sugar.

222

: 00:13:05

And previously, you

know, I really wouldn't.

223

: 00:13:07

And I noticed huge changes in myself

when I went carnival, especially in

224

: 00:13:13

things like athletic performance.

225

: 00:13:15

At the time I was doing a bit of running.

226

: 00:13:18

I no longer do that.

227

: 00:13:19

But at the time I was running some 10 Ks.

228

: 00:13:22

And the first one that I did, I was

really in a lot of pain after it,

229

: 00:13:26

eating basically vegetarian diet.

230

: 00:13:28

The second one that I did I had a steak

the night before, managed it much more

231

: 00:13:33

easily, had no muscle pain after it.

232

: 00:13:36

Since then I've taken up the passion

of my youth, which was kickboxing.

233

: 00:13:40

I'm a very keen kickboxer.

234

: 00:13:41

I really enjoy it.

235

: 00:13:43

So I've taken that up again and I

definitely noticed that it's easier to

236

: 00:13:46

maintain fitness on a carnivore diet.

237

: 00:13:49

It's easier to maintain what I

can only describe as a kind of

238

: 00:13:53

equilibrium of energy levels.

239

: 00:13:56

I don't experience the highs and

the lows of the sugar cravings.

240

: 00:14:01

Energy surges, energy dips.

241

: 00:14:04

I don't experience that as much.

242

: 00:14:06

I do feel as if it's been

it's been good for me.

243

: 00:14:09

I can see it in my face, my hair, I

was explaining to you before we started

244

: 00:14:14

recording that I've just come back

from clearing after the fires here.

245

: 00:14:18

And I didn't, I didn't have time to

wash my hair, so it's kind of, you might

246

: 00:14:22

not be able to see it right now, but

in general it looks a lot healthier.

247

: 00:14:25

And just in general, I, I feel a

lot, lot better on, at least I would

248

: 00:14:31

call myself an animal based dieter.

249

: 00:14:34

I'm not a strict carnivore, but

I try to limit my carb intake.

250

: 00:14:39

I also don't drink alcohol just

because it's really bad for you.

251

: 00:14:42

And it also doesn't disagree with me.

252

: 00:14:44

Personally, I don't

respond well to alcohol.

253

: 00:14:47

I get drunk very easily

and hung over very easily.

254

: 00:14:51

So after one glass of wine, I'm

already a bit tipsy and I usually

255

: 00:14:54

feel quite quite nauseous after it.

256

: 00:14:57

Just in general, thinking more about

what we've been told about diet , and

257

: 00:15:01

what we've learned, the way we've been

raised in dieting terms, and the way

258

: 00:15:06

I want to invest in my future and my

health I find that very important.

259

: 00:15:11

I would say that, in general, in

the area of Portugal that I live in.

260

: 00:15:15

Diet is, it's, it's really

interesting for me how present it is.

261

: 00:15:21

Maybe it sounds like a stupid thing to

say, but how present it is in daily life.

262

: 00:15:24

People don't tend to

take diet for granted.

263

: 00:15:28

In general.

264

: 00:15:29

It's a place where the diet is

very, very healthy, I think.

265

: 00:15:34

I mean, I live right by the sea, so

there's a huge amount of fresh fish.

266

: 00:15:39

There are wonderful farmer's

markets, so just the fresh produce

267

: 00:15:43

in general is very, very good.

268

: 00:15:46

I know some local beef producers now,

so I can get locally raised beef.

269

: 00:15:51

I mean, the other side to that is

that in the area that I live in,

270

: 00:15:55

There is also a big vegan community.

271

: 00:15:58

And I don't wish or feel qualified

to tell anybody how they should be

272

: 00:16:02

eating or raising their children.

273

: 00:16:04

It's definitely not the

choice that I would make or a

274

: 00:16:07

choice that I see as healthy.

275

: 00:16:09

I'm also not interested in anybody

trying to evangelize me into

276

: 00:16:14

that way of life because they

feel that it's morally better.

277

: 00:16:17

That's something that I don't enjoy

or respond particularly well to.

278

: 00:16:21

But that said, Those are the negatives

of, of that, but I would say that there

279

: 00:16:26

is the positive side in the idea that

people don't just eat whatever is to hand

280

: 00:16:31

and whatever's cheap and whatever's easy.

281

: 00:16:33

There are people who are very engaged

with the idea of diet in general and

282

: 00:16:38

whichever direction that takes you

in, whether that would be the animal

283

: 00:16:42

based path that, that I've chosen.

284

: 00:16:45

Or the vegetarian or vegan pass.

285

: 00:16:47

At least people are thinking about it.

286

: 00:16:48

At least it's a topic of conversation.

287

: 00:16:50

I would also say specifically the area

that I live in is extremely sporty.

288

: 00:16:56

So a lot of people have

moved here for the surf.

289

: 00:16:59

If they're not surfers, goodness,

everybody is into kickboxing or

290

: 00:17:04

hiking or whatever the outdoor

activity is that you want to do here.

291

: 00:17:08

And it's.

292

: 00:17:09

How can I put this delicately?

293

: 00:17:11

Obesity is almost non existent here.

294

: 00:17:14

So if you walk around my village,

there might be a few elderly

295

: 00:17:18

people who are overweight.

296

: 00:17:22

But when I go back to England now,

I'm really shocked at the pandemic of

297

: 00:17:28

obesity, which seems to be swamping my

hometown of Manchester, and I'm sure

298

: 00:17:33

it's not much better in other places.

299

: 00:17:34

It's, it's incredible and it's

I know it's not particularly

300

: 00:17:37

politically correct to say, but it's

something that saddens me deeply.

301

: 00:17:41

Tali: Yeah, I can

definitely relate to that.

302

: 00:17:42

In the US, obviously we have

a lot of problems with that

303

: 00:17:46

and being a homeschooling mom

running all over the place.

304

: 00:17:50

It's so, so.

305

: 00:17:52

Difficult to eat healthy.

306

: 00:17:55

I struggled so much I used to go as far

as cooking something in the clay pot in

307

: 00:18:02

the morning before I send the kids off.

308

: 00:18:05

And.

309

: 00:18:06

I will wrap it with three thick towels

to keep the heat in because I found

310

: 00:18:11

that that was the best way to do it.

311

: 00:18:13

And homeschool kids, everywhere they go.

312

: 00:18:15

It's always the four of them together.

313

: 00:18:17

So I only have to pack one, right?

314

: 00:18:19

So I would pack a family

size clay pot with hot

315

: 00:18:22

stew or meat or something like that,

instead of making sandwiches, because

316

: 00:18:26

I was trying to veer away from

bread and deli and prepared food,

317

: 00:18:30

no crackers, that kind of stuff.

318

: 00:18:32

I wanted it to be fresh.

319

: 00:18:34

And my kids would say they would be so

embarrassed when there was lunchtime.

320

: 00:18:38

And all these other kids are taking

out like packaged crackers and

321

: 00:18:41

Oreo cookies and things like that.

322

: 00:18:42

And they open up their Lunch bag and the

lid comes off and the steam comes up and

323

: 00:18:48

then the aroma wafts through the whole

room and everybody's turning their head

324

: 00:18:52

and they're like, it's so embarrassing.

325

: 00:18:53

Everybody's looking at us because our

food is smelling up the whole place.

326

: 00:18:57

But I try

327

: 00:18:58

Holly: What's embarrassing about that?

328

: 00:19:00

Like that's, what's embarrassing about

having a mum who's presented, prepared

329

: 00:19:04

them a beautiful home cooked meal?

330

: 00:19:06

That's lovely,

331

: 00:19:07

Tali: but it is, it's so, so difficult.

332

: 00:19:10

It takes so much planning.

333

: 00:19:12

It's so much easier to go to a grocery

store, get crackers and cheese plastic

334

: 00:19:17

wrapped things it's like 99 cents for

one a lot of kids had that and then they

335

: 00:19:22

had sweet stuff packaged candies And

so my kids would swap their fresh food

336

: 00:19:27

for the candies and sweet things because

mom wouldn't give them any you know.

337

: 00:19:33

And since entering the bitcoin space

and really relooking at how meat is

338

: 00:19:38

sourced, especially in the grocery stores.

339

: 00:19:40

I think that was the biggest wake

up call for me because now I try

340

: 00:19:44

not to buy meat from grocery stores.

341

: 00:19:46

If I can help it, I get it

from the farmers directly.

342

: 00:19:50

And that's just not something that

I would have questioned before.

343

: 00:19:53

Holly: Are you aware of the beef

initiative in in Texas climate and

344

: 00:19:56

you're nodding away vigorously there.

345

: 00:19:58

Yeah, that's nice to see.

346

: 00:20:00

Yeah.

347

: 00:20:00

It would be wonderful to have that

kind of thing in in Europe as well.

348

: 00:20:04

And there are some guys up north who

are busy up the north of Portugal that

349

: 00:20:07

is who are busy trying to kind of, I'm

not going to say replicate that system

350

: 00:20:12

because Obviously, the Beef Initiative

is based in Texas and there just is no

351

: 00:20:17

comparison between Portugal and Texas.

352

: 00:20:20

It's a radically different country very

different cows, different crops, different

353

: 00:20:24

landscape, even a different postal system.

354

: 00:20:28

So it's not easy to, to try to get

that kind of initiative going here, but

355

: 00:20:33

they're doing a great job of raising

awareness of the importance of knowing

356

: 00:20:36

where your meat comes from and it's

funny in the next village up from me,

357

: 00:20:42

whenever I drive there, that's where

I was clearing after the fires today.

358

: 00:20:47

And whenever I drive there, there

are these beautiful herds of

359

: 00:20:50

cattle on either side of the road.

360

: 00:20:54

And, well, my mouth is

just watering, basically.

361

: 00:20:56

I'm thinking, I'm thinking,

where can I buy this meat?

362

: 00:21:03

So now I'm starting to put feelers

out in the local community but even

363

: 00:21:07

in Portugal, the slaughter system is

really regulated and, you know, I mean,

364

: 00:21:12

to some extent, probably rightly so.

365

: 00:21:14

I mean Obviously, it's a sensitive topic,

but it seems that it is possible to

366

: 00:21:19

contact local farmers, get together with

a bunch of friends, basically ask them for

367

: 00:21:26

the slaughter of one cow, and divide that

up between a group of interested parties.

368

: 00:21:31

So I'm definitely looking into that

possibility for later in the year.

369

: 00:21:36

That'd be nice.

370

: 00:21:37

Tali: Yeah, for sure.

371

: 00:21:38

I was trying to do the calculation too.

372

: 00:21:40

So right now We still have

two kids staying with us.

373

: 00:21:44

Two of them just left for college and

so I was calculating like what if I

374

: 00:21:48

bought a whole cow it just means that

I need to have two freezers and then

375

: 00:21:51

I will just be set for the whole year

and then I don't have to go look for it

376

: 00:21:56

somewhere And you get all the different

parts of the cow, you get the tendons,

377

: 00:22:00

you're looking at me crazy.

378

: 00:22:01

Like, you don't eat the

379

: 00:22:03

Holly: no.

380

: 00:22:04

Tali: You gotta eat the tendons.

381

: 00:22:06

Holly: Yeah.

382

: 00:22:06

Tali: Mm hmm.

383

: 00:22:07

Holly: Yeah.

384

: 00:22:07

No, I completely agree with you.

385

: 00:22:09

It's, I'm just a little tiny bit

intimidated by the cooking prospect

386

: 00:22:14

of getting like hung or, you know,

there are some parts of the cow

387

: 00:22:20

that I feel extremely confident

cooking like steak and ribs.

388

: 00:22:25

And, but the, the other kind of the

parts of the cow that here in Europe,

389

: 00:22:29

at least we don't commonly get from

the butcher or the supermarkets.

390

: 00:22:33

I'm not sure I would know how to cook

a cow's, I don't know, brain or a,

391

: 00:22:39

Tali: I don't know how to

cook a cow's brain either.

392

: 00:22:41

Actually, my mom would know

how to cook the various organs.

393

: 00:22:45

Because there's like, the cooking

time is very, very different.

394

: 00:22:48

But tendons I can cook because you

just stir it in with your roast beef.

395

: 00:22:53

And it just roasts down and then

it just becomes this gooey mess

396

: 00:22:56

and it's the gelatin that you want.

397

: 00:22:58

Anyway.

398

: 00:22:59

Holly: Right.

399

: 00:23:00

Yeah.

400

: 00:23:01

Yeah.

401

: 00:23:01

Fantastic stuff.

402

: 00:23:02

I'm a big fan of bone broth as well.

403

: 00:23:05

I love my, here in Portugal, I'm

always quite happy that you can

404

: 00:23:09

buy parts of the chicken that you

definitely can't in Northern Europe.

405

: 00:23:13

So I have packets in the fridge.

406

: 00:23:15

I've got one now, actually, which

it's chicken thighs and breasts and

407

: 00:23:19

everything and wings, but it's also the

feet and, you know, some of the organs.

408

: 00:23:24

And I love that this

makes this kind of, thick.

409

: 00:23:28

If I cook that low and slow, that

will make me this gorgeous kind

410

: 00:23:32

of gelatinous mess, you might say.

411

: 00:23:36

If I put it in the fridge, it

looks like jelly, you know, you

412

: 00:23:38

can, you can wiggle it like this.

413

: 00:23:40

But I can feel how good that is for me.

414

: 00:23:42

I just, I love it.

415

: 00:23:44

Tali: Yeah Yeah, for sure.

416

: 00:23:45

I'm gonna move on to the next topic

You mentioned that the fiat system

417

: 00:23:51

affects the entire society, but also

in the genders differently So, can you

418

: 00:23:58

expand a little bit more about that?

419

: 00:24:00

Holly: I certainly can.

420

: 00:24:02

I am well aware though, Tali,

that what I have to say on that is

421

: 00:24:07

Probably not very mainstream and

perhaps not particularly welcome.

422

: 00:24:12

I've lost quite some

friends on this topic.

423

: 00:24:14

And that's, that's a sad thing.

424

: 00:24:16

I guess I would say that I'm

quite a traditional woman.

425

: 00:24:19

I, I love being a woman.

426

: 00:24:21

I am so proud to have raised

two girls who love being women.

427

: 00:24:26

And I'm so proud that they

both say that when they're

428

: 00:24:28

adults they want to be mothers.

429

: 00:24:30

I think that's.

430

: 00:24:31

So normal, and even just those

basic, I think, I just think that

431

: 00:24:37

the state of society at the moment,

and I blame the money, has taken us

432

: 00:24:42

to some really radically, what can

I say, some terribly sad situations.

433

: 00:24:48

So, I'll give you two examples.

434

: 00:24:51

I actually lost a group of friends

because we were having a craft evening.

435

: 00:24:57

So back in Amsterdam, I

organized like a handcraft group.

436

: 00:25:01

I love handcraft.

437

: 00:25:02

I love making things.

438

: 00:25:03

I used to, when my daughters

still thought it was cool.

439

: 00:25:06

In fact, no, it's true.

440

: 00:25:07

My, my daughters still think it's cool

to wear clothes that their mum made.

441

: 00:25:10

But when they were little

kids, you know, I used to love.

442

: 00:25:13

knitting them sweaters with monsters

on, or, you know, whatever they fancied.

443

: 00:25:18

Or, or crocheting them little mermaids

or bears or whatever they wanted.

444

: 00:25:22

And I used to do that

with some female friends.

445

: 00:25:24

Now, you'd think that women that

were attracted to, to that kind

446

: 00:25:27

of activity would be also quite

traditional in their mindset.

447

: 00:25:32

But we, at one point, had a

conversation in which we started

448

: 00:25:35

talking about gender roles.

449

: 00:25:37

And I was so surprised by the things

that they were saying about women

450

: 00:25:40

in the workforce, women in the home,

men in the workforce, men in the

451

: 00:25:44

home, that I tried rolling it back

to a very, very basic scenario.

452

: 00:25:48

I basically said, look, can we at least

agree, if you're, as a woman, you're

453

: 00:25:53

alone in the woods with a man, and

there's wood that needs to be chopped,

454

: 00:26:00

and there's food that needs to be

cooked, can we at least agree That it

455

: 00:26:04

will be at least much more efficient

if the man with the massively superior

456

: 00:26:10

muscle power chops the wood, right?

457

: 00:26:13

Seems to me a no brainer.

458

: 00:26:16

And I won't bore you with the entire

story, but essentially I lost a group

459

: 00:26:19

of friends over that conversation.

460

: 00:26:22

Yeah, because there was a sense that, you

know, the woman should be allowed to chop

461

: 00:26:27

the wood if she wanted to chop the wood.

462

: 00:26:28

The man might be better cook than the

woman, so he should maybe be able to

463

: 00:26:32

do It was a very strange conversation

and it kind of escalated into a bit of a

464

: 00:26:38

general discussion of women's roles and

yeah, and it, I I just feel that it's

465

: 00:26:44

brought us to a, such, we're in such a

strange situation in which things that

466

: 00:26:48

I would take very much for granted in

terms of gender roles are no longer taken

467

: 00:26:54

at, taken for granted, no longer even.

468

: 00:26:58

permissible and that that has

had a series of knock on effects.

469

: 00:27:03

I was cooking food.

470

: 00:27:04

So at the moment there's there

have been huge wildfires in

471

: 00:27:07

my area and It's been amazing.

472

: 00:27:11

In fact, I just finished writing an

article for Bitcoin Magazine about

473

: 00:27:15

the power of community and what

happens when people govern themselves.

474

: 00:27:18

And it's just been, it's,

it's been overwhelming to see.

475

: 00:27:21

So a lot of people have lost their homes

and what's happened is that groups of

476

: 00:27:25

people have come together to cook for

the people who've lost their homes

477

: 00:27:28

and to help them clear their land.

478

: 00:27:30

Now I've been doing a little

bit of land clearance as well.

479

: 00:27:33

But although I'm quite sporty, I'm also

50 kilos and perhaps have half the muscle

480

: 00:27:39

power of most of the guys, especially

the surfer guys in, in my neighborhood.

481

: 00:27:44

So I feel that my capacity there,

although I have the best will in

482

: 00:27:48

the world, is relatively limited.

483

: 00:27:50

So I've been alternating a bit

between land clearances and

484

: 00:27:53

cooking in the community kitchens.

485

: 00:27:55

Also an interesting point.

486

: 00:27:56

So the food which has been being

provided until now has been vegan.

487

: 00:28:01

So that's been an interesting one as well.

488

: 00:28:03

So yesterday I brought a nice

big pot of stewed beef to

489

: 00:28:06

supplement that a little bit.

490

: 00:28:08

And that gave rise to some

discussion, but all accepted.

491

: 00:28:12

Very nice people in this area, really.

492

: 00:28:14

So I mean, it seems to me that it's

a fairly natural thing for women.

493

: 00:28:19

of the area to cook for the

community and the men to get stuck

494

: 00:28:22

into the clearance, you know, and

the women can cook for the men.

495

: 00:28:25

It seems to me to be a fairly natural

thing, but even the women that are

496

: 00:28:30

involved in that when I speak to

them about being a mother, so we were

497

: 00:28:36

speaking yesterday about children and

having children, obviously I have two

498

: 00:28:39

daughters, and I was just I was really

saddened yesterday, after my time in the

499

: 00:28:44

kitchen, to hear that a lot of the young

women around me, they don't want that.

500

: 00:28:48

They don't want to be mothers.

501

: 00:28:49

I mean, obviously,

there are others who do.

502

: 00:28:52

And indeed who are, but but it's

not uncommon now for, for young

503

: 00:28:57

women to be saying, well, I think

I would not want to be a mother.

504

: 00:29:01

And I just find that really sad.

505

: 00:29:03

I just, I'm sure you'll, you'd say as

well as the mother of four children.

506

: 00:29:08

Um, it's such a privilege.

507

: 00:29:10

Tali: I just wonder What about the fiat

system do you think, because you're

508

: 00:29:15

a historian, has driven women from

Where we were a very short time ago to

509

: 00:29:23

suddenly being a woman was not okay,

or even being a man was not okay, you

510

: 00:29:28

have to be like, both at the same time,

511

: 00:29:31

Holly: Yeah.

512

: 00:29:32

Well, and here again, I'm aware that

my views could be a bit controversial,

513

: 00:29:36

but I think, I think the whole issue

around not being proud to be a man

514

: 00:29:40

or not being proud to be a woman,

I just think that's just so tragic.

515

: 00:29:44

And the entry of men into women's

sports, I mean, come on, it's ridiculous.

516

: 00:29:49

It's, it's like a joke.

517

: 00:29:50

It's just like a joke.

518

: 00:29:51

But I do think that there are some common

themes when I speak to women like that.

519

: 00:29:58

And I certainly, I don't, I'm

so tentative about all of this,

520

: 00:30:02

I don't want to offend anybody.

521

: 00:30:04

If, if I'm, if I'm

522

: 00:30:06

Tali: it's it's, okay for you to speak

freely, because if they don't like what

523

: 00:30:10

you're saying, they can just hop off.

524

: 00:30:13

I think it's really interesting for us

to discuss it openly, because there's

525

: 00:30:17

nowhere else We're allowed to discuss

this at all and I actually agree with what

526

: 00:30:23

you're saying and my daughters will agree

with what you're saying So it's actually

527

: 00:30:27

refreshing to hear it from your side as

well and from what you're observing so I

528

: 00:30:35

mean, I, I have an answer in my head about

what brought us here in regards to money.

529

: 00:30:40

But I wanted to see what

you think as a historian.

530

: 00:30:44

And then of course I mean, I can

talk about this very strange feminine

531

: 00:30:48

Movement or the no gender gender

doesn't count kind of movement, whatever

532

: 00:30:53

they call it They call it pride,

but I don't think it's pride really

533

: 00:30:56

it's almost like the lack of pride.

534

: 00:30:58

You can't be prideful about Anything at

all whatsoever even being a woman like my

535

: 00:31:04

girls would say I love it when a man is

being gentlemanly, like if he pulls out

536

: 00:31:10

my chair or if he opens the door, I love

that, but the boys are afraid to do it.

537

: 00:31:16

My daughter went grocery shopping

with her college friends.

538

: 00:31:19

One time she slipped on the floor,

fell down and her male friend

539

: 00:31:24

was afraid to offer her a hand.

540

: 00:31:27

Because he didn't want to offend her and

she was like, why are you not helping me?

541

: 00:31:31

He goes, well, I don't want to offend you.

542

: 00:31:32

She goes, I want you to help me get back

up And then he helped because there's

543

: 00:31:37

so much fear that has been instilled

into these young people they don't

544

: 00:31:41

know what to do Even the most basic the

friend has fallen down if it's a male

545

: 00:31:45

friend, they would have helped if it's

a female friend Oh, no, they can't help

546

: 00:31:50

them because they might be insulting

their women power It's so backwards.

547

: 00:31:55

But let's talk about how

money like brought us here.

548

: 00:31:58

Holly: Yeah, I mean, well, I think

that there are several levels

549

: 00:32:02

of it, but I would focus on two.

550

: 00:32:04

I do think that the fiat system

on, on a more superficial level I

551

: 00:32:09

definitely think that, you know, that

the fem well, is it even feminism?

552

: 00:32:14

I mean, and true feminism

wanted fairness, right?

553

: 00:32:18

And nobody's going to argue

with fairness, but fairness does

554

: 00:32:20

not does not equal equality.

555

: 00:32:23

That's not what fairness

means in, in my head.

556

: 00:32:26

And I think that's the, the dreadful

mistake that was made in the 70s and 80s.

557

: 00:32:31

It doesn't necessarily mean that women

should be doing the same work as the men.

558

: 00:32:36

You know, I think that that's the mistake.

559

: 00:32:39

The idea became...

560

: 00:32:41

Very, very prominent that women

should be doing the same work as men.

561

: 00:32:45

I think we went badly wrong.

562

: 00:32:46

And I mean, I definitely remember

as a little girl in the 80s, I

563

: 00:32:50

remember the magazine covers, you

know, the models on magazine covers.

564

: 00:32:55

And they'd have this kind

of, they'd have the big hair.

565

: 00:32:57

They'd have the big 80s hair.

566

: 00:32:58

And they'd have these big shoulder pads.

567

: 00:33:00

You know, and they'd be wearing

these kind of power suits

568

: 00:33:03

and, and it was very strange.

569

: 00:33:05

I mean, the message that, that

I as a little girl was given

570

: 00:33:07

really was that you've got to want

to, you've got to want it all.

571

: 00:33:10

You've got to be able to do it all.

572

: 00:33:12

You've got to be the same as the men

in the workplace and you've got to

573

: 00:33:16

be a mother and a wife and you've got

to look 10 years younger than you are

574

: 00:33:20

and this and this and this and this.

575

: 00:33:21

And I just think that's an incredibly

confused message to give to little girls

576

: 00:33:27

and not a very positive one either.

577

: 00:33:30

I think that fiat has had

a huge impact on that.

578

: 00:33:34

I mean, that's, that's the money

system in general, the hamster wheel.

579

: 00:33:39

The older I get, the more I think

that perhaps getting women into

580

: 00:33:41

the workplace is simply a tax scam.

581

: 00:33:44

So the governments could tax the other

50 percent of the population as well.

582

: 00:33:48

I don't think...

583

: 00:33:49

There's a coincidence

there, I really don't.

584

: 00:33:51

I think it's had a very corrosive

effect on families, I think it's

585

: 00:33:54

had a very damaging effect on women.

586

: 00:33:57

I do think that fiat goes very

deep philosophically as well.

587

: 00:34:02

The high time preference, the lack of

ability to commit from both genders,

588

: 00:34:08

I think is very much connected

to high time preference and fiat.

589

: 00:34:13

So if I, just to go back to the women

that I was talking about, who don't want

590

: 00:34:17

to become mothers, what they have, it

seems to me, just from an external point

591

: 00:34:21

of view, the, the common theme that they

have throughout their stories is that

592

: 00:34:26

they have not been able to rely on men.

593

: 00:34:28

There is absolutely no man in their life

who has been capable of and willing To

594

: 00:34:35

play a traditional male role and the

traditional male role is to protect

595

: 00:34:40

and provide most men it seems to me

have been to think that it's okay

596

: 00:34:47

not to protect and not to provide.

597

: 00:34:50

And I think that that's

been incredibly damaging.

598

: 00:34:52

They think there seems to be some

kind of expectation now that everybody

599

: 00:34:56

flits from one relationship to another.

600

: 00:35:00

They have not had men in their lives on

whom they can build a solid foundation.

601

: 00:35:05

And that's crucial.

602

: 00:35:07

And they've been let down so often that

what they've, from the female point of

603

: 00:35:12

view, and look, I'm well aware that this

is, this is strange and controversial

604

: 00:35:16

to say, but it seems to me that what

these, these women have almost taken

605

: 00:35:20

the decision to do is to see Their

relationships with men as only having

606

: 00:35:26

a sexual aspect, basically because the

men have not lived up to anything else.

607

: 00:35:31

So what these women have decided to do

is eliminate the importance of a male

608

: 00:35:36

figure through their lives, and they start

flitting from man to man as well, which

609

: 00:35:42

I think becomes such a vicious cycle.

610

: 00:35:45

You know, the women see men as

unable to provide a genuine male

611

: 00:35:49

role in their lives or fulfill a

genuine male role in their lives.

612

: 00:35:53

And men start to see women as a

fairly temporary investment because

613

: 00:35:57

because of this or because of

that, because the women themselves

614

: 00:36:00

have become unwilling to commit.

615

: 00:36:03

And it's just a horrible cycle.

616

: 00:36:05

Nobody benefits, you know.

617

: 00:36:07

Tali: I think that there's such a fine

line to balance being protected and being

618

: 00:36:13

dominated, The two concepts, I think that

a lot of women are fighting against the

619

: 00:36:19

dominance part, but in so doing, they lost

the protection part, because that's such

620

: 00:36:25

a fine balance that needs to be achieved.

621

: 00:36:29

And I can see it myself.

622

: 00:36:31

So, I mean, let me see if

I can give you an example.

623

: 00:36:34

My husband, he's ex army and

he had female classmates.

624

: 00:36:40

He said, when he first went into

the service and they were going to

625

: 00:36:46

a bar together, he walked ahead of

them and open the door for them.

626

: 00:36:50

And his female classmates

were like, what are you doing?

627

: 00:36:53

He says, well, I'm being a

gentleman, I'm opening the door.

628

: 00:36:56

And they say, you don't

think I can open my own door?

629

: 00:36:59

You know, it's like, he was.

630

: 00:37:00

Trying to show that he cared and

they took it as It was a dominance

631

: 00:37:05

thing, like it was assuming that

they were weak kind of thing.

632

: 00:37:09

So then after that, he was

afraid to open doors for anybody.

633

: 00:37:13

So that's, you know, it started even back

en that was in the very early: 1990

634

: 00:37:18

And I was talking to my son who

is now 20 and his friend and both

635

: 00:37:24

of them were trained up by an ex

marine in a junior ROTC program.

636

: 00:37:30

And when they went out, there were

two girls, two boys, they were

637

: 00:37:35

walking on the street downtown.

638

: 00:37:37

The boys kept the girls on the inside

of the sidewalk . And it was an

639

: 00:37:42

intentional, we are protecting you.

640

: 00:37:44

We're downtown, we're in an unknown

neighborhood, and we will be

641

: 00:37:49

your guard, kind of thing, right?

642

: 00:37:51

And the two girls, it was my son's

girlfriend and my daughter, they

643

: 00:37:56

both noticed, and they really

appreciated being protected.

644

: 00:38:00

But,

645

: 00:38:00

Holly: course!

646

: 00:38:01

Tali: but these two were specifically

trained up by the program to

647

: 00:38:05

take on the protector role.

648

: 00:38:07

But if the two girls have been walking

with the average boy, 20, 21 year old,

649

: 00:38:13

I doubt that they have been taught that.

650

: 00:38:16

And so they don't do that because

they are afraid of offending anyone.

651

: 00:38:19

Well, it probably wouldn't even occur

to them because being a protector

652

: 00:38:23

is no longer a thing for boys when

they're, when they're growing up.

653

: 00:38:27

Unless you're specifically taught

that, which is very uncommon.

654

: 00:38:31

My girls they complain about it a little

bit because most of their guy friends

655

: 00:38:36

are not gentlemanly and they don't

take on the protector role and they

656

: 00:38:39

want to be protected, but not dominated

657

: 00:38:42

.

That's a fine line to walk.

658

: 00:38:44

Holly: Of course!

659

: 00:38:45

Very, very interesting

topic of conversation.

660

: 00:38:49

I mean, I would say...

661

: 00:38:51

You know, again, I'd say that

I have, I'm quite a traditional

662

: 00:38:55

person, a woman in general.

663

: 00:38:58

I do think that, that, of course women

want to be protected, it's biological,

664

: 00:39:03

it's, it's not, it's not negotiable.

665

: 00:39:05

It's not something that, that we

should be or could be trained out of.

666

: 00:39:09

I mean, of course women are going to

prefer men who are protective of us.

667

: 00:39:14

And, you know, the providing role,

I think, is very, very interesting.

668

: 00:39:18

When I talk about providing,

people associate that very much

669

: 00:39:21

with a financial provision.

670

: 00:39:23

But actually I think that one of the

most important aspects of providing

671

: 00:39:27

is the provision of security,

safety good experiences, a sense of

672

: 00:39:32

security and emotional and physical.

673

: 00:39:36

Of course women are going to want that.

674

: 00:39:38

You know, it's not rocket science.

675

: 00:39:40

biologically , programmed

to, to want that.

676

: 00:39:44

And you know, again, a

fairly controversial topic

677

: 00:39:47

is dominance, leading role.

678

: 00:39:52

I do think that, let me

put that very carefully.

679

: 00:39:55

I do think that men have and

should have a leading role.

680

: 00:40:01

And there, there are two things

I'd like to, to mention on that.

681

: 00:40:04

I think to get, to go back again to

the idea of fiat, And women who feel

682

: 00:40:09

protected or don't feel protected

and the role that fiat has played.

683

: 00:40:14

I think fiat goes, it goes

so deep into our culture.

684

: 00:40:18

In order for a woman to give

a man a leading role, several

685

: 00:40:24

things have to be in place, right?

686

: 00:40:25

For a start, you can't just give a

leading role to every man you meet.

687

: 00:40:28

That would be crazy.

688

: 00:40:30

Right?

689

: 00:40:30

It should be a partner who is

absolutely committed to you.

690

: 00:40:34

You know that he's committed to you.

691

: 00:40:37

Otherwise, giving him a leading

role, and it has to be somebody

692

: 00:40:41

that you can look up to and trust.

693

: 00:40:46

If you can't look up to somebody or can't

trust them, giving them a leading role

694

: 00:40:50

in your life will be self destructive.

695

: 00:40:52

If you think this person is not a good

decision maker, or I can't necessarily

696

: 00:40:57

trust them, unfortunately, you know,

giving them a leading role or relying

697

: 00:41:02

on them, you just can't do it.

698

: 00:41:05

It, it is too big a risk to your own

personal and emotional safety, depending

699

: 00:41:10

on what role we're talking about here.

700

: 00:41:12

Super interesting discussion on this.

701

: 00:41:15

Not actually linked with fiat, but I

definitely saw a very interesting link.

702

: 00:41:19

I read a book not so long ago

called the United States of Fear.

703

: 00:41:23

And you'll have to forgive me

because I can't remember the

704

: 00:41:25

author's name, but it was excellent.

705

: 00:41:27

It was written by a psychologist,

and it was essentially about

706

: 00:41:31

the rise of Karen behavior.

707

: 00:41:33

You know what, you know what a Karen is?

708

: 00:41:35

Right, so you're nodding

away vigorously there.

709

: 00:41:38

So he, from a psychological

perspective, was saying that Karen

710

: 00:41:42

behavior, which is puts him kind

of Simple terms for myself as well.

711

: 00:41:47

It's the Kind of behavior in which

anxiety spills over into aggression

712

: 00:41:52

almost massive dominance So a lot of the

analogies that he made were with corona.

713

: 00:41:59

So you get people who were really inclined

to insist that their neighbors did not

714

: 00:42:04

receive visitors in their home or well the

security guard if you're not wearing your

715

: 00:42:08

mask or whatever it was and he associated

Karen behavior with a massive decline in

716

: 00:42:15

basically trust in gender relationships.

717

: 00:42:18

He was saying that women are

naturally programmed to rely upon

718

: 00:42:22

men for, or rather he was saying

that women are naturally more anxious

719

: 00:42:26

than men and rightly so, right?

720

: 00:42:28

Because the world does contain

more hazards for women.

721

: 00:42:31

Men tend to be stronger.

722

: 00:42:33

So for example, if I'm out in the

ocean and the waves are really big,

723

: 00:42:38

That's a bigger threat to me than it

would be for a man who, who is twice

724

: 00:42:43

as strong and more able to, to swim

and save himself than it would be

725

: 00:42:46

for me to walk down a dark alleyway.

726

: 00:42:49

It would be a greater risk for me.

727

: 00:42:51

The risk of harm would be greater than

it would be for a man because a possible

728

: 00:42:55

assailant will be more likely to be able

to overwhelm me than would for a man.

729

: 00:42:59

This is fairly natural for women

to be generally and naturally

730

: 00:43:02

more anxious than men because the

world does contain more threats.

731

: 00:43:07

But he said that what has deteriorated

recently is women's trust in

732

: 00:43:11

men's ability to, and willingness

to, protect them and save them.

733

: 00:43:16

That men's natural role is to reassure

women and to also set boundaries on that.

734

: 00:43:23

anxious, controlling behavior, and to

say, no you can't go around telling

735

: 00:43:28

people what not to do, or it's going

to be fine, don't worry about it.

736

: 00:43:32

And that, that women have started to

perceive men as much more inclined to

737

: 00:43:38

simply throw them under the bus in the

case of a risk and run for the hills

738

: 00:43:42

themselves without the burden of having

to protect their woman or their family.

739

: 00:43:46

It's a very sad book, but

also a very interesting one.

740

: 00:43:49

It, for sure, it resonates.

741

: 00:43:50

I, for sure, I thought, yeah, I

definitely see threads of this

742

: 00:43:55

in society and I blame fiat.

743

: 00:43:57

Tali: Yeah.

744

: 00:43:58

If we talk about the ability to provide,

and I'm going to try to link this to fiat.

745

: 00:44:04

So if you have a trusting relationship

and you have a stay at home mom, and you

746

: 00:44:08

have a husband who's working, who is a

hard worker and a good man, and whatever

747

: 00:44:14

people are doing in the banking system.

748

: 00:44:17

And the fiat system causes a

recession or, multiple recessions

749

: 00:44:22

and the man loses his job, right?

750

: 00:44:25

A lot of downsizing isn't happening

to people who are lazy or didn't try

751

: 00:44:33

very hard or just made bad choices.

752

: 00:44:37

A lot of downsizing is affecting

people who have done what they

753

: 00:44:41

believe is right and have worked hard.

754

: 00:44:44

And so you throw that job loss into

the family dynamic, and then you not

755

: 00:44:52

only lose faith in the system because

you know you've done the right

756

: 00:44:56

things, almost maybe unconsciously,

you start to lose faith that your

757

: 00:45:03

provider can consistently provide.

758

: 00:45:05

I wonder if that comes

in and plays a role.

759

: 00:45:08

Because of the number of recessions

that we've hit over the last several

760

: 00:45:12

decades, especially they're more

frequent , I, so I'll give an example.

761

: 00:45:17

We have a friend.

762

: 00:45:18

Her husband was an engineer and he

was downsized three times in a row.

763

: 00:45:26

Like he, he was downsized,

he found another job.

764

: 00:45:28

He was downsized again, found another

job, immediately was downsized again.

765

: 00:45:31

During that process, his wife

said, you know what, that's it.

766

: 00:45:35

We're not looking for

another engineering job.

767

: 00:45:37

We're done.

768

: 00:45:37

So they decided to go

and open a coffee house.

769

: 00:45:40

And that turned out to be very

successful, but it took a long time of

770

: 00:45:44

struggling for them to get that coffee

house up and running but it's that

771

: 00:45:49

idea of you can't trust the system.

772

: 00:45:52

And if your provider is part of this,

we are all part of the system, but if

773

: 00:45:56

your provider is part of the system,

then it's almost like I can't trust him.

774

: 00:46:00

Therefore I need to step up.

775

: 00:46:01

And of course they became a

dual in same business, but

776

: 00:46:05

two people are working, right?

777

: 00:46:06

Whereas before it was one person

working in the engineering job and

778

: 00:46:09

one was just a full time mom, but

they both had to step up to start this

779

: 00:46:13

business and got their kids involved.

780

: 00:46:16

And it became.

781

: 00:46:18

a matter of survival.

782

: 00:46:20

And I don't know if that plays into

the whole idea of like, I wonder what

783

: 00:46:25

their kids are saying to themselves,

maybe even subconsciously watching

784

: 00:46:29

that, you know, dad was providing,

then he wasn't able to provide, then

785

: 00:46:33

he was providing, then he wasn't.

786

: 00:46:34

And the mom had to step up.

787

: 00:46:35

And now it takes both of them

to provide, like, what message

788

: 00:46:38

are they telling themselves?

789

: 00:46:40

And what decisions might they make

differently because of what they witnessed

790

: 00:46:44

that contributes to that whole feminism

and the gender movement You know what?

791

: 00:46:50

I'm saying like if we

tie it all together in a

792

: 00:46:53

Holly: I see exactly, I, I can

see exactly what you're saying,

793

: 00:46:57

but that's a very special case.

794

: 00:47:00

But what I'm hearing is

absolutely beautiful.

795

: 00:47:03

I mean, this, this man,

I mean, What a hero!

796

: 00:47:08

And I could understand that that must be

psychologically very, very difficult for a

797

: 00:47:13

man and also for the woman that's got his

back and who's looking after the children,

798

: 00:47:18

to be downsized three times in a row.

799

: 00:47:20

But what you actually said was he was

downsized, then he tried again, and

800

: 00:47:26

then he was downsized, and then he tried

again, and then he was downsized again,

801

: 00:47:30

and he was willing to keep trying.

802

: 00:47:31

I mean, what a fighter!

803

: 00:47:33

And instead of giving up and thinking,

I can't do this, He's opened a new

804

: 00:47:38

business together with his partner who is

supporting him and helping him and that.

805

: 00:47:43

I mean, I think it can be a bit easy

to get stuck in a trap of thinking, I

806

: 00:47:48

don't know, negatively about men, but

I think that's also a very feminist.

807

: 00:47:52

way of thinking.

808

: 00:47:53

And, you know, it's not as if he's

failed to provide for his, his family.

809

: 00:47:58

I mean, I've been really blown away.

810

: 00:48:01

You know, I keep going

back to the fires here.

811

: 00:48:03

I think it's because they're

quite present in my mind.

812

: 00:48:06

But you know, when the fire was

really burning in the area close

813

: 00:48:09

to, to my home I could see it.

814

: 00:48:13

I could hear it.

815

: 00:48:14

I could smell it.

816

: 00:48:16

It looked, sounded, and

smelled like a monster.

817

: 00:48:19

It was terrifying.

818

: 00:48:20

And, you know, the fact that all these

guys were rushing out there to fight it.

819

: 00:48:26

Oh my God, you know, if

anybody has ever thought...

820

: 00:48:29

What's happened to, to the real

men, you know, put, put a crisis

821

: 00:48:33

out there and you see them.

822

: 00:48:36

I mean, these are the guys that

are now, they fought the fire.

823

: 00:48:39

These are the guys that are

chainsawing and clearing and

824

: 00:48:43

working on cleaning the land.

825

: 00:48:44

Today, I was at the land of a

family with two little kids and.

826

: 00:48:50

What I see is that both the mum and

the dad are all hands on deck with

827

: 00:48:54

the cleaning and the clearing, but

you know, it is quite beautiful to

828

: 00:48:59

see the dad stepping up to provide

a new home for the children, even

829

: 00:49:04

if it's not financial provision.

830

: 00:49:06

What he's doing is leveraging

his network to make sure that

831

: 00:49:10

his family is safe and secure.

832

: 00:49:14

I just think it goes very

deep and is very biological.

833

: 00:49:17

I do definitely see the fiat attack

on that, and the way that men can be

834

: 00:49:24

undermined, but actually I think that

recession is just one form of crisis,

835

: 00:49:29

and just like in the wildfires, you

know, then you do see this instinct

836

: 00:49:35

to protect and provide coming out

actually quite quite clearly, you know?

837

: 00:49:40

Tali: a long time ago.

838

: 00:49:41

I came across this book called Raising

Boys and it talked about how boys were

839

: 00:49:49

not allowed to be boys anymore from the

time they're very little and It's like

840

: 00:49:54

they're being taught to be girls But

also be boys, but not really like their

841

: 00:50:00

dad kind of thing, like you can't use

physical action to resolve something.

842

: 00:50:06

You don't hit the other boy or the other

child, you come to the mom or the teacher.

843

: 00:50:11

It sounds logical because obviously we

don't want school fights, but every time

844

: 00:50:16

we tell them they can't resolve something

that we need somebody else to step in,

845

: 00:50:21

we're taking away their sense of power.

846

: 00:50:23

Holly: Yeah, and also I would add to that

that given that mums obviously are all

847

: 00:50:29

women and teachers are overwhelmingly

women What's interestingly happening there

848

: 00:50:34

is that they're being taught not only are

you not allowed to resolve that problem?

849

: 00:50:39

You've got to turn to a woman that

the problem has to be resolved in a

850

: 00:50:43

feminine And in a feminine paradigm.

851

: 00:50:47

So, I mean, the levels of that message

are just mind blowing and very scary.

852

: 00:50:52

And couple that with the idea of

toxic masculinity, which is kind

853

: 00:50:57

of propagated by God knows who

It's mind blowing, it really is.

854

: 00:51:01

Tali: yeah we can talk about it all

day long cause I've got like so much

855

: 00:51:04

more stuff to say, . I want to ask

you about what you mentioned before

856

: 00:51:09

in terms of what you're doing now.

857

: 00:51:11

You said you're doing something

that is terrorism prevention.

858

: 00:51:15

What is that and how do you do that?

859

: 00:51:19

Holly: so that was my previous

incarnation, that was my

860

: 00:51:22

pre Bitcoin incarnation.

861

: 00:51:24

So I was working as a researcher

for various non profit organizations

862

: 00:51:28

and basically they worked

on a kind of project basis.

863

: 00:51:33

We looked at, we worked a lot with

people who have been terrorists

864

: 00:51:38

and stepped out of the world of

terrorism, shall we put it like that?

865

: 00:51:42

radical groups.

866

: 00:51:43

We worked a lot with professionals

who come into contact with young

867

: 00:51:47

people who would be considered to be

vulnerable to becoming radicalized.

868

: 00:51:52

And we did it just by looking at

psychological factors and social factors

869

: 00:51:57

and all kinds of other factors which

can influence radicalization and.

870

: 00:52:02

factors which can influence

the exit from radicalization.

871

: 00:52:07

It was a fascinating job.

872

: 00:52:09

I do think that I am still proud of

what I achieved within that, that job.

873

: 00:52:13

I do think we helped some families

and family comes very, very

874

: 00:52:16

high on my list of priorities.

875

: 00:52:18

So I'm really proud to

be able to say that.

876

: 00:52:21

On the other hand, I also think that

governments have stuck their noses

877

: 00:52:25

in to families far too deeply and

their long sticky fingers, especially

878

: 00:52:30

during Corona and it resonated

less and less with my mindset.

879

: 00:52:34

So now at the moment I'm working on a

really exciting new initiative, which I

880

: 00:52:41

don't want to say too much about, but I'm

really genuinely very excited about it.

881

: 00:52:47

Can't wait to get it off the ground.

882

: 00:52:49

So in, in Portugal, I've been just

kind of doing my own little thing,

883

: 00:52:54

pottering around, trying to educate

people a bit about Bitcoin and how to

884

: 00:52:58

transact and save in Bitcoin, giving

information sessions here and there.

885

: 00:53:04

This has had a lovely snowball effect.

886

: 00:53:05

So I've become known as.

887

: 00:53:07

A person who knows a little bit

about Bitcoin, I would never call

888

: 00:53:11

myself an expert, I never have

called myself an expert on anything.

889

: 00:53:16

And I don't think I ever will, but

somebody who has enough information to be

890

: 00:53:20

able to help people get some first steps.

891

: 00:53:22

So, that's had the lovely effect of

having people start to contact me

892

: 00:53:27

to, to ask if they have questions.

893

: 00:53:29

And so, so some of my kickboxing buddies,

for example, Have invited me for a Bitcoin

894

: 00:53:34

chat and we've discussed what money is

and why our current system is Messed up.

895

: 00:53:40

I nearly swore on your podcast.

896

: 00:53:42

I'm not going to What we can do

about it how we can opt out We've

897

: 00:53:49

been talking a lot about circular

economies, so one of the things I

898

: 00:53:52

feel really passionate about doing

is orange pilling the merchants in my

899

: 00:53:56

neighbourhood, with whom I transact a lot.

900

: 00:53:59

So for example, my daughter's surf

teacher I can now pay for her surf lessons

901

: 00:54:03

in Bitcoin, I can pay to have my hair

cut in Bitcoin, I can pay my dentist.

902

: 00:54:07

Not that I orange pilled him,

he was already well orange

903

: 00:54:10

pilled before, before I met him.

904

: 00:54:12

But my beef producer, the lady

who makes the lovely face creams

905

: 00:54:17

that I use, etc, etc, etc.

906

: 00:54:20

Those are the people that I feel very

passionate about orange peeling and

907

: 00:54:23

starting a circular economy with.

908

: 00:54:25

And also starting a community with,

amongst whom, issues like gender issues,

909

: 00:54:32

and what fiat does to community, and

what fiat does to women, and what fiat

910

: 00:54:37

does to, to our social interactions.

911

: 00:54:40

these things can be discussed.

912

: 00:54:41

So I've been feeling very passionate

about setting that up, but I've also

913

: 00:54:45

been feeling a bit limited in my efforts.

914

: 00:54:47

I'm obviously I'm only one person.

915

: 00:54:49

And I think I'm looking at a way

to scale up and to export the whole

916

: 00:54:56

blueprint, as it were, to communities

where that could be of immense value.

917

: 00:55:02

And so I'm, I'm now working with a

former colleague of mine, actually,

918

: 00:55:05

from the terrorism prevention world,

who's now also discovered Bitcoin and

919

: 00:55:11

fallen absolutely down the rabbit hole.

920

: 00:55:13

So I'm getting excited texts at

like three o'clock in the morning

921

: 00:55:16

saying, Hey, do you know what the

banking system has done to us?

922

: 00:55:19

And so on and so forth.

923

: 00:55:22

So it's very exciting to work with

somebody else who's, who's quite

924

: 00:55:25

passionate about it all and who has an

amazing network in the human rights field.

925

: 00:55:30

So definitely looking into a very

exciting new initiative there.

926

: 00:55:34

Tali: That sounds really awesome.

927

: 00:55:35

Okay, so last question.

928

: 00:55:37

Bitcoin?

929

: 00:55:42

Holly: get off the fence.

930

: 00:55:43

I would say that women have a

bit of a tendency to think that

931

: 00:55:48

finances are a man's world.

932

: 00:55:50

I think that that's a shame, a missed

opportunity in spite of the fact that

933

: 00:55:56

communications around Bitcoin can be

a little bit masculine in their form.

934

: 00:56:02

We were talking about exactly

that before you started recording,

935

: 00:56:05

and I love this initiative.

936

: 00:56:07

Don't be intimidated by it.

937

: 00:56:09

It's so important.

938

: 00:56:11

It's so important.

939

: 00:56:12

It's going to have an impact on you

and your family and your future.

940

: 00:56:18

I would say, Start learning, get involved

whichever way you can, and don't make the

941

: 00:56:24

mistake of thinking, this is a man's world

and I'm going to leave it up to my man.

942

: 00:56:29

Because we all need this.

943

: 00:56:30

We all need to know about this.

944

: 00:56:32

It's really important.

945

: 00:56:33

It's really important.

946

: 00:56:35

Tali: All right.

947

: 00:56:35

Thank you so much, Holly.

948

: 00:56:36

It was wonderful to chat with you

and my best wishes to that new

949

: 00:56:41

initiative that you are rolling out.

950

: 00:56:43

And I can't wait to hear about it.

951

: 00:56:45

Thank you again for joining us today.

952

: 00:56:48

Holly: Thank you so

much for the invitation.

953

: 00:56:49

It's been a real pleasure

to talk with you.

954

: 00:56:51

I've, I've really enjoyed it.

955

: 00:56:52

And yeah, I'd love to come

back and tell you more about

956

: 00:56:55

it when we're up and running.