Andi - "The social dislocation I see in the U. S. is worse [than many other much poorer countries]."

Andi: 00:00:00

The fiat currency incentivizes and promotes

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inequality and social dislocation.

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And I was very skeptical,

honestly, of coming in to Bitcoin.

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Tali: Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to Orange Hatter.

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Andy, thank you so much for

spending an afternoon with us

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and sharing your Bitcoin story.

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Andi: Thank you.

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It's great to be here.

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Tali: Let's jump right in.

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Can you tell us a little

bit about your background?

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, Andi: I am a founding

partner at EgoDev Capital.

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So, we're a venture capital

fund that invests in companies

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building in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

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, I grew up in Australia.

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, studied math and economics.

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Ended up working with Goldman Sachs.

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, First in Australia and then New York

for nearly eight years, , I took a

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bunch of time out, traveled, , did a few

different things before starting, , co

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founding the fund , with, , Jeff Booth

and Nicola Chuga early last year.

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Tali: Sounds like a very,

very exciting life so far.

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Let's, let's dig deeper.

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Uh, so you started, , with Goldman Sachs.

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And you mentioned that you travel a bit.

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When we talked, , last time we were

at Bitcoin Park, you mentioned that

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you were an exchange student to China.

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So are

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Andi: Ah, I wasn't an exchange

student, but I studied Chinese.

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I spent some time there.

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So I first in 2000, uh, 2000.

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Five, I think 2005, , and we did some

performances in different cities in China

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and kind of did little exchanges with

other orchestras, which was really cool.

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, and then I studied Chinese

a little bit in university.

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And then basically I had some time

between university and starting

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work, which is when I did my first

really, really long stint of travel.

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And part of that, I was in China for a

couple of months, , in the South, just

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studying Chinese and just living there.

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Tali: you still speaking Chinese today?

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Or is that?

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Do

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Andi: Sadly, I mean, I could probably

get around if I really needed to.

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, I've since been living

in Spain and Mexico.

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And so the focus was more on Spanish.

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, and probably the next language

I'm going to learn is French.

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I only speak German.

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My mom's German.

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But, I would, maybe I should

pick up Chinese again.

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I really do enjoy learning it.

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I

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Tali: So when you are traveling around

the world, you must have experienced

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such different cultural beliefs and

even just everyday approaches, ? Do you

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think that that may have helped you?

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understand the coin when you

first encountered a Bitcoin?

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Andi: think, definitely, and also,

I guess, I grew up, , I always

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wanted, I always saw there was

something wrong with the world.

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I always saw that the world

was very, very unequal.

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I couldn't really understand.

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How it was that some people in some

parts of the world could have so little

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and I, my family wasn't rich at all,

but, , growing up in Sydney, good

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public infrastructure, public schools,

everything, , in the context of the world,

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I was very, very privileged and I just,

that to me just never really made sense.

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And so I always had this passion, , I

guess for understanding that and

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understanding it really at the root cause.

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So I did study development economics

in university, , a lot of which to

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me just seemed, , very superficial.

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, a lot of the talk was, okay, well, if

you invest X or if you do Y development

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program, that's what helps development.

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And it was always like, well, but you're

just talking about treating the symptoms.

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Like what's the root cause of this?

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And a lot of it that I was understanding

at the time was around governance

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and corruption, , and certainly that

I've traveled throughout a lot of the

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developing world, a lot of Africa, Latin

America, Middle East, Eastern Europe,

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, Asia, and, , So I have, I definitely

learned a lot through that and I think you

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really see, I guess, as a traveler, you

don't always necessarily go deep in terms

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of what, like, particularly the banking

and access to the financial system,

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but you certainly see and understand

people and it becomes very, very natural

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to have a very global perspective as

opposed to seeing it all necessarily

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just from a global perspective.

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The perspective of how I grew up.

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Tali: Yeah.

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Um, can you tell us a little bit about

the first time you came across Bitcoin?

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Andi: I first came across crypto

in: 2018

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was spending time in Berlin

with a lot of the crypto people.

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And I think I got a little lost in

the weeds or not in the, in them.

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That was so much.

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And I was like, no, no, this makes sense.

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Like all the use cases you're

talking about don't make sense.

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And so I didn't get through

to Bitcoin at the time.

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So I was , kind of put

off by the whole thing.

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I was like, this seems ridiculous.

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, anyway, and then it was really a couple

of years later talking to Jeff and Nico

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about Bitcoin specifically and realizing

how it tied in a lot to what I had been

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seeking for as Really understanding

this global problem of inequality of

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corruption of governance of all of

these issues and understanding that

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the money really is the foundation of

that and and is the root root cause

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potentially, , the inequality with the U.

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S.

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Dollar being a reserve currency with fiat.

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, and so it's sort of as soon as I

heard the story around that, it

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just instantly clicked for me.

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That it fits so well into all of

these issues and ideas and areas that

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I've been exploring my whole life.

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Tali: So when you first came across

Bitcoin, and you're making those

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connections, were there specific

people who came to your mind or, or

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stories or something you observed

through your travels that particularly

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jumped out at you when you're making

these, like connecting all these dots?

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Andi: I think less my travel, certainly

my travel, I think what was more was the

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study that I had done around corruption

and governance and just seeing, and seeing

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the international financial systems, the

way that IMF works, the way that World

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Bank works, lending to countries, putting

them in these positions of servitude

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effectively to the global financial system

and these kind of process of extraction.

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, and effectively, it

incentivizes governance.

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Corruption, it incentivizes

civil conflict.

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, and it's all coming back to this sort of

currency that, that is driving it all.

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, and this system that was

driving it all in this system

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of power corrupt and corruption.

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, and so the concept of having a

currency and a value that couldn't be

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corrupted or manipulated, , I think

was really , what stood out to me.

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Tali: I'm thinking in my mind,

I did a little bit of traveling

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in my twenties as well.

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, but I, I always remembered this

story that someone shared with me.

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She's an American, she was

retired and she was visiting.

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Think it may have been India,

but she was describing how.

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These young men would run up to her

and her husband and tell them to

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please take them home with them and

that they would be their son and that

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they will love them and respect them.

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It was like this very active pleading,

not just can you please give me some

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money, but it was can you please

get us out of here kind of thing.

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And I always remembered.

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That story when she shared it with me.

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So can you think of any examples

of something similar that you had

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experience in all the different

places that you've visited?

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Andi: It's funny because I actually,

in a way, experience, I saw, I've seen

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so much poverty and at the same, like,

you know, I traveled through India.

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I've traveled through places with

very, what people would consider very

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extreme positive poverty, but actually.

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Some of the social

dislocation I see in the U.

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S.

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is actually worse.

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I, I still remember, I had been in India,

I'd spent a couple of months there, and I

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was shocked when I got back to New York.

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And I was in Brooklyn and seeing

the homelessness and the desperation

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of the people in Brooklyn.

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And that to me was like, there's

something wrong with the system.

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, there's something wrong.

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If you have the richest country in

the world and yet the level of social

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dislocation of destitution of poverty,

it's like people just on the street.

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I remember seeing this man near my

friend's apartment, this old man in

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a wheelchair, just like slumped over.

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I guess he was a drug addict.

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I don't know.

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And it was just like.

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How can we as a society let this happen?

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Because actually in a lot of

developing countries where they have

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nothing, they actually have so much

more in terms of social structures.

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So I still remember I showed, I, when

I was traveling through Africa, I

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had my main camera, which was like

whatever, SLR, and then a little camera.

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And often when I would go, there'd be

kids around, I would just give them

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my cat, the little one, and they would

play with it and have so much fun.

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People were like, oh, well,

wouldn't they steal it?

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I was like, no, just because

they're poor doesn't mean they steal.

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Like they have values.

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Actually, a couple of times I

forgot it almost as I was leaving.

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And like, I had a kid come up to me

and be like, your camera, your camera.

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I was like, oh, I almost forgotten.

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So I ended up with these amazing

photos of these kids and they were

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having so much fun and so happy.

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And I showed that to my mom and my mom

was like, wait, but they look so happy.

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And I was like, of course,

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.

Why wouldn't they be happy?

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She's like, because they're poor.

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And I was like, well, just because

they're poor doesn't mean they're unhappy.

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And actually some of these people are

richer in terms of, they have a community,

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they have social, they, if they go to

school, like they have friends and family.

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And, , so in, a way it was less

seeing that it was more than being

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like, wait, there's something

wrong with the U S as well.

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And the Western structure.

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And as I continued to go down

these Really understanding the

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root cause of so many problems.

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And you realize the fiat currency just

incentivizes and promotes inequality and

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promotes all of these social dislocation.

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And I was very skeptical,

honestly, of coming in to Bitcoin.

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I know, people talk about,

Oh, Bitcoin fixes this.

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And I've been very, very skeptical of that

kind of, Oh, well it seems too simple,

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but the more you get down to these root

cause of this is like, you have money

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at the foundation, just creating this.

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This inequality and that that's

like the worst of anywhere in

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the world, almost in the U.

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S.

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Tali: That is a really

interesting observation.

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I have been thinking about how poor we are

in the US in terms of I feel that, , we

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are so set on having our independence

that what we give up is the community.

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And , if we have 100 people trying to

make it on their own versus 100 people

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working together, you have 100 lonely

and desperate people versus maybe 100

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happier and more hopeful people.

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Andi: Yeah.

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And that's not to say, I mean, that's not

to say that, oh, it's fine to be poor.

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Like, absolutely not.

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On the other hand, I met, , this man

in, it must be in rural, rural Malawi,

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tiny little town in Malawi, where of

course the, all you see Coca Cola trucks

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everywhere, by the way, it is crazy.

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You're like the middle of nowhere

and has a beautiful, perfect

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Coca Cola truck going past.

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It's wild.

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And I can go into that as well.

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But, , I met this man and he was

a, he had a sewing machine, a

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beautiful thing, a sewing machine.

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He was a tailor, like he was fixing

clothing and was there with his wife, but

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he had been working in a mine nearby and

had been really, really badly injured.

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, and basically got this one little piece

of money as settlement and was trying

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to live off it, but it was almost

gone and there was just this like, you

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know, it's like, what's he going to do?

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He's injured.

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There isn't the same support that

they used to be in communities and

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they're all of this sort of Western

social dislocation has arrived there.

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And so it's just really varies.

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And he was just such a lovely, lovely man.

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I have this beautiful photo of him.

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But I was really worried

for his future as well.

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Tali: Okay.

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So what about those Coca Cola trucks?

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Andi: Well, okay.

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So I guess I, I read a book recently.

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So as I said, We think about fiat currency

and what problems that causes, , and

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effectively, if you think about fiat

currency, loose money, there's so much

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money being injected into the system

all the time that now there's all

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this money that people can actually

be incentivized to try and capture.

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And so if we think about all of

these different industries, whether

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it's, we know the concept of , the

military industrial complex, right.

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And so all of this money that can be

spent, but we need to justify things.

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And it's because there's all this money

available to be spent by governments,

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but then there's all these corporations

that are incentivized to try and

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figure out ways to justify and then

capture this loose money that can come.

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So all of this money is then being

funneled into these corporations,

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which everyone else is.

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About savings is being debased, so it's

just generating this huge inequality,

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and that's what we're seeing in the US.

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It's sort of the most pronounced of

anywhere, , and then you start thinking,

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Well, that's just one industry.

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What about the pharmaceutical industry?

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Exactly the same thing.

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People are incentivized to create

drugs because there's money that

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can come from the whole system.

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And then and then you go to Okay,

what about the processed food?

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Industry and I recently read a book called

ultra processed people all about the

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fast food, the processed food industry

and the same thing they're incentivized

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to try and capture wealth and they

because of all of this loose money

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that's basically going around the system.

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So we think, well, more money

is good because it helps people,

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but actually it creates all of

these really terrible incentives.

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So now you have a situation like in

Brazil or wherever, where people like

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Brazil and Africa, . Obesity is a huge

problem because they basically, Coca

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Cola saw rates of growth going down in

developed countries and figured where

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can we get new markets, they went into

emerging markets, they're bringing out

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this, this basically pushing processed

food and fizzy drinks and sugar on People

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that, because it's just cheap and it's

available and there's really terrible

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stories of how it's created, , incentives

in places like in towns where they can't

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access any fresh food anymore and all

they can get is this processed food

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from these international corporations.

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, so that was, I, I just remember being

in rural Africa and being like, what

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the fuck is a Coca Cola truck doing here?

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Excuse my language.

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Anyway, and now it's like you

start understanding why it's

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because of, it's because of fiat

currency and these weird incentives.

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Tali: I have a, , somewhat relevant

story to share . , I was visiting

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rural Kentucky, , a couple of years ago

and . These areas used to be, , mining

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towns and since the mines closed down,

all of these people just sunk into

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horrible, horrible poverty ., so , I was

talking to this lady who works with the

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town describing An economy happening

locally that was boosted by welfare.

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And I said, well, what does that mean?

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I don't understand.

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And she said, people, would get food

stamps and food stamps are meant to

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be spent at the grocery store because

if they got cash from the government

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through their welfare system, then

they would go buy drugs because drugs.

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Alcohol, they're rampant over there.

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The problem.

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So they would take the food stamps

and they would go to the grocery store

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and buy up large amounts of soda.

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They will haul them by cases into

somebody's truck and then they will

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drive them to the local restaurants and

sell them to the restaurants for money.

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And because it was free to them, any

money that , they got was extra for them.

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And of course the restaurants can.

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So that's how they would funnel

money out of the welfare system.

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And then they use the money

to go get drugs anyway.

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And then the kids would grow up without

even the basic knowledge of how to

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bathe and how to brush their teeth.

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And I actually went into

the Walmart, , In that area.

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And I was shocked at the condition

of the people who came into

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Walmart they were horribly deformed

physically because they're eating.

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Processed food because, you know, food

stamps and they would buy canned food and

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sodas and then they would go do drugs.

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And so I looked at, , there was a

baby that came in with a family and I

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looked at the baby and I, I couldn't

believe that it was an American baby.

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I just, I mean, that sounds so horrible

because it's not okay anywhere in the

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world, but just like what you're saying.

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disparity between the poor

and the rich is so great.

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And yet these people are being supported.

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And I feel like in some ways we pat

ourselves on the back that we have

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the welfare system, but the welfare

system really hurts them even more.

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Going back to the Fiat system and the soda

and the The process food and everything,

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you know, so yeah, it's, it's very sad.

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Andi: I think it's complex because I don't

know that the answer is don't do welfare.

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: 00:16:39

I think the answer is so

much deeper than that.

304

: 00:16:41

And it's like the politicians

are doing their best.

305

: 00:16:45

Like welfare is basically trying

to treat a symptom, but in

306

: 00:16:49

a way it's making it worse.

307

: 00:16:50

But at the same time,

it's so complex because.

308

: 00:16:53

The root cause of it's like

treating an illness, right?

309

: 00:16:56

They're trying to put band aids on

things, but the root cause of the whole

310

: 00:16:59

problem is so deep and so hard to treat.

311

: 00:17:02

And so people that are hopeless and

have nothing and trauma and become

312

: 00:17:07

addicted, it's really terrible.

313

: 00:17:09

And that's, I think once you start

realizing, , we're not individuals, right?

314

: 00:17:14

Like we like to think we're individuals,

but actually we're a collective humanity.

315

: 00:17:18

And.

316

: 00:17:19

Their suffering is our suffering.

317

: 00:17:20

I think you see it when you

travel there and, and you feel it.

318

: 00:17:24

It's easy to sort of insulate yourself,

but at the end of the day, it's going

319

: 00:17:28

to come at you one way or another.

320

: 00:17:29

I noticed it in Austin.

321

: 00:17:30

I live in Austin and there's

more and more homeless people.

322

: 00:17:35

I had a conversation that's

potentially as a result of the opioid

323

: 00:17:38

epidemic, , which is all, , and

I can go into that more around.

324

: 00:17:42

Thank you.

325

: 00:17:43

Doctors being incentivized to

basically be legal drug dealers.

326

: 00:17:48

And even now it's terrible.

327

: 00:17:51

, and at the end of the day, it impacts

me because I'm seeing these really

328

: 00:17:55

desperate homeless people on the street.

329

: 00:17:56

And I try and sometimes give

them money, but it's really sad.

330

: 00:18:02

And it, it's not just their suffering.

331

: 00:18:03

It's my suffering as well.

332

: 00:18:05

, And I feel sometimes powerless,

but that's why I think Bitcoin is.

333

: 00:18:09

I feel like it's slow and you don't see

immediate progress, but it's really trying

334

: 00:18:14

to address this at maybe a root level.

335

: 00:18:17

Tali: Yeah, for sure.

336

: 00:18:18

, a lot of people ask, what Precoiners

will ask, how long would it

337

: 00:18:22

take for our system to reset?

338

: 00:18:26

Because that's our dream, right?

339

: 00:18:27

As Bitcoiners, we're all hoping

that that day will be soon.

340

: 00:18:30

I mean, what do you think?

341

: 00:18:31

How long do you think it would

take for us to get to that point?

342

: 00:18:34

Andi: I hope it's not a reset

and it's more of a transition.

343

: 00:18:39

I know some people want everything to

fall apart cause so much suffering,

344

: 00:18:43

but I, I think what we're doing

is building a new system that

345

: 00:18:46

people can over time transition to

and things are going to collapse.

346

: 00:18:52

I think that's inevitable.

347

: 00:18:53

That's just history.

348

: 00:18:55

, I don't know.

349

: 00:18:55

I think it could be a while to be honest.

350

: 00:18:57

Um, you know, the U.

351

: 00:18:59

S.

352

: 00:19:00

Well, who knows?

353

: 00:19:01

I think it's honestly so hard

to tell, so hard to predict.

354

: 00:19:05

Tali: It's a very

355

: 00:19:06

Andi: be years, it could be

decades, it could be centuries.

356

: 00:19:09

, probably decades is my guess.

357

: 00:19:11

Tali: yeah, that's my guess too.

358

: 00:19:13

Okay, so you've come into the Bitcoin

space, you're convinced that it's

359

: 00:19:16

going to be a good thing for everyone.

360

: 00:19:19

, how has it changed the way you

look at life in other ways?

361

: 00:19:23

yoU touched on a little bit about the

process for you and the big pharma.

362

: 00:19:26

, what about personally?

363

: 00:19:28

Andi: Yeah, I think it's made, I mean, I

think in general it's made me, um, because

364

: 00:19:34

we grow up with these stories, you grow up

taught one thing, we grew up learning that

365

: 00:19:38

inflation is the way it should be done.

366

: 00:19:40

We grew up learning that

cycles are the way things are.

367

: 00:19:42

I studied economics, right?

368

: 00:19:43

That's just taught to you.

369

: 00:19:44

That's just how it is.

370

: 00:19:45

It's not, this is a theory.

371

: 00:19:47

, and , you start, I think Bitcoin, you

start questioning everything you've

372

: 00:19:50

learned about economics, about finance,

about the global financial system.

373

: 00:19:54

And then you start

thinking, well, if that's.

374

: 00:19:57

Everything I believe there is kind

of not true or it's someone's

375

: 00:20:01

story that I've just been taught.

376

: 00:20:04

Well, where else is it?

377

: 00:20:05

Okay, and then you go, what about health?

378

: 00:20:08

Like, what, what am I told about

health and medicine and drugs,

379

: 00:20:12

like legal, like pharmaceuticals?

380

: 00:20:14

, and then you start, okay, I'm going to

really start questioning all of this.

381

: 00:20:18

And then you start really

questioning, , literally everything.

382

: 00:20:22

, and that's a little

terrifying, to be honest.

383

: 00:20:25

So I think do it bit by bit.

384

: 00:20:28

But, , I've really come to question

so many of my beliefs and so much

385

: 00:20:32

of what I hear in the news or

headlines or anything like that.

386

: 00:20:35

And just really trying to come up with my.

387

: 00:20:38

Own independent views on sort of

everything, really, and talking

388

: 00:20:42

to people and questioning.

389

: 00:20:45

Tali: So, , before we started

recording, we were talking a little

390

: 00:20:48

bit about alternative health.

391

: 00:20:51

It's a subject that I'm very, very

interested in, , just because of personal

392

: 00:20:55

experience, what I have observed from

watching people who are close to me,

393

: 00:21:00

, , hearing other people share their stories.

394

: 00:21:03

Well, recently I came across a thing

called emotion code, which is where you

395

: 00:21:07

release trapped emotions in your body.

396

: 00:21:10

So I was chatting with someone one

night and I said, I'm experimenting.

397

: 00:21:13

I don't know what I'm doing,

but you want me to do on you?

398

: 00:21:16

And she said, sure.

399

: 00:21:17

So we did one session.

400

: 00:21:19

I don't know if it did anything, but

anyway, three days later I get this

401

: 00:21:24

very excited text and she goes, I

need to do another session with you.

402

: 00:21:28

And I said, really, what happened?

403

: 00:21:29

And she goes, That thing that I

told you about, it's releasing,

404

: 00:21:33

like it's, my body is healing.

405

: 00:21:35

And it's after, it's three days

after we did the emotion release.

406

: 00:21:39

, , and that condition was closest

to a scheduled surgery date.

407

: 00:21:43

And it was going to be this gaping

hole in her body that they would have

408

: 00:21:47

to sew up but the body, once you

release the trapped emotion there

409

: 00:21:52

was able to start self healing.

410

: 00:21:54

So I'm super interested in it.

411

: 00:21:56

I was blown away.

412

: 00:21:58

I mean, doctors are necessary . So

I'm not saying no doctors.

413

: 00:22:01

I'm just saying it doesn't have

to be the first resort isn't

414

: 00:22:06

necessarily let's cut it out.

415

: 00:22:08

We don't understand what's happening.

416

: 00:22:09

It's causing you pain.

417

: 00:22:10

Let's chop it.

418

: 00:22:11

Let's cut it out.

419

: 00:22:12

Let's separate.

420

: 00:22:13

You know what I'm saying?

421

: 00:22:15

Andi: yeah, that's amazing.

422

: 00:22:16

I would love to learn more about this.

423

: 00:22:18

I think I could benefit from that.

424

: 00:22:21

, I think one thing that people, they

hear alternate medicine and they think,

425

: 00:22:25

oh, it's just wishy washy, whatever.

426

: 00:22:27

, there's a lot of.

427

: 00:22:29

The thing is the medical field is very

conservative and so it's typically decades

428

: 00:22:33

behind the latest scientific innovations.

429

: 00:22:36

The same with science in general.

430

: 00:22:38

, and so for instance, on this point of

emotion being stored in the body, it's

431

: 00:22:42

very scientifically documented now.

432

: 00:22:44

There's a great book called

The Body Keeps the Score.

433

: 00:22:47

I'm not sure if you've read that, which is

a number one New York Times bestseller.

434

: 00:22:51

, I highly recommend

everyone to read that and.

435

: 00:22:54

, I agree with you.

436

: 00:22:54

Medicine is amazing.

437

: 00:22:55

It's really incredible, particularly

at treating any sort of acute injuries,

438

: 00:23:00

penicillin, antibiotics, all of these

things . , but in terms of treating

439

: 00:23:04

disease, it's very bad, , because

it's typically treating symptoms of

440

: 00:23:09

disease and not the cause of disease.

441

: 00:23:11

, and I'm not an expert, but I definitely

in my experience and what I've

442

: 00:23:14

learned and read about, it does seem

that a lot of disease is caused by,

443

: 00:23:19

, psychological and emotional factors.

444

: 00:23:21

So, , for instance,

someone growing up and.

445

: 00:23:26

, they have challenging parents or abusive

parents, and so they learn to always

446

: 00:23:30

internalize all of their emotions because

it's dangerous to express their emotions.

447

: 00:23:35

And then over time, they're basically

trapping all of that in their body, and

448

: 00:23:38

that ultimately is sort of inevitable that

it will lead to disease, cancer, all of

449

: 00:23:42

these things, and it's not their fault.

450

: 00:23:45

, it's just, we're not taught as a

society of how to manage emotion.

451

: 00:23:49

We're not, we're taught how to be good,

productive workers in the economy.

452

: 00:23:53

We're not taught how to be, healthy

human beings and members of a community.

453

: 00:23:58

, and so all of I think what's incredible

now that maybe the synthesis can

454

: 00:24:02

come through of the modern technology

of science, along with the ancient

455

: 00:24:06

understanding of, you know, in China,

they have incredible knowledge of

456

: 00:24:11

the energy systems of the body.

457

: 00:24:14

of the chi systems, all of

which is all proven by science.

458

: 00:24:17

There's so much evidence that the

Chinese knew exactly what was going

459

: 00:24:21

on internally, but it takes such a

long time for that to filter into

460

: 00:24:25

the ordinary medical practices.

461

: 00:24:27

I am very optimistic because if we

think about meditation, for instance,

462

: 00:24:31

10 years ago, that was a very fringe,

new age, weird hippie thing, and now

463

: 00:24:37

it's like every single doctor probably

recommends that patients meditate.

464

: 00:24:41

, and so I think it's this synthesis

of, the scientific understanding

465

: 00:24:45

with all of the ancient knowledge that

can come together now, which , and I

466

: 00:24:49

think also it's similar, health is

similar to Bitcoin, I was sitting

467

: 00:24:53

down with a friend of mine on the

weekend and she's a very, she's an

468

: 00:24:56

incredible functional medicine doctor.

469

: 00:24:59

, and so they bought Bitcoin and I was

helping them learn to self custody and

470

: 00:25:02

I was explaining self custody, you know,

we, we've typically given up all of

471

: 00:25:06

our sovereignty and ownership of money.

472

: 00:25:08

We just.

473

: 00:25:08

outsource it to the banks.

474

: 00:25:09

We let them look after it.

475

: 00:25:11

Sometimes they collapse and

we don't take ownership.

476

: 00:25:13

And so, so much of Bitcoin is, is taking

ownership and learning and doing it.

477

: 00:25:17

And yes, it's not easy at first,

but then you figure it out and self

478

: 00:25:20

custody, and then it becomes normal.

479

: 00:25:22

And then you start to wonder,

why did I let the banks look

480

: 00:25:24

after my money for so long?

481

: 00:25:26

The same thing with health.

482

: 00:25:27

And she said, it's the same thing

that people just outsource their

483

: 00:25:30

health to their doctors, but actually.

484

: 00:25:33

It's she wants people to reclaim and

to take ownership and understand and

485

: 00:25:37

do the research and talk to people.

486

: 00:25:39

, so that was a really interesting

conversation, actually.

487

: 00:25:42

Tali: I find that very interesting

that an MD would talk to you about

488

: 00:25:45

that because a lot of MDs are very

upset that people are self diagnosing.

489

: 00:25:50

Andi: My friend, so she's in functional

medicine, and I'm not sure if, yeah,

490

: 00:25:54

functional medicine is very, very

forward thinking, , ultimately everyone

491

: 00:25:58

knows their body better than their

doctor can so their doctor can help.

492

: 00:26:01

It's like a therapist, right?

493

: 00:26:02

Like the therapist isn't going to come

and say, this is what's wrong with you.

494

: 00:26:05

They're working with you, asking

you questions, understanding

495

: 00:26:08

that ultimately it's up to you.

496

: 00:26:10

, you know yourself better than anyone.

497

: 00:26:12

And I think it's the same with medicine.

498

: 00:26:14

So self diagnosing is one thing,

but maybe there's something there.

499

: 00:26:18

, and there's so many advances in terms of.

500

: 00:26:22

doing testing for toxins or scans and

things like that, , that really do

501

: 00:26:27

empower people and then you can work

with a doctor to help you through it.

502

: 00:26:31

I think that's her perspective, but

I can't speak for her obviously.

503

: 00:26:34

Tali: Well, I totally agree with that

because I work with a functional doctor

504

: 00:26:37

and I have a Chinese acupuncturist

and herbalist who I work with and my

505

: 00:26:42

first resort when somebody, has the

sniffles or something is always I

506

: 00:26:46

would text my acupuncturist and say,

is this something you can help me with?

507

: 00:26:50

And if he can, he will say, come in.

508

: 00:26:52

If not, then he says, Go to urgent care.

509

: 00:26:55

And I, I love that.

510

: 00:26:56

I have that personal relationship

with my doctor instead of

511

: 00:27:01

going through a automated call.

512

: 00:27:05

And then you have to wait

forever for a human being.

513

: 00:27:07

And every time you call in,

it's a different person.

514

: 00:27:09

And you never get to talk to

a doctor until you get there.

515

: 00:27:12

And then it's like, he

has three minutes for you.

516

: 00:27:15

And then he's out of the

room and , you're just never

517

: 00:27:17

seeing the same person twice.

518

: 00:27:19

And they're always coming in asking you

the same questions over and over again.

519

: 00:27:22

In the same visit,

520

: 00:27:24

Andi: Yeah.

521

: 00:27:26

I need to find a good acupuncturist.

522

: 00:27:28

I worked with an amazing acupuncturist

when I was living in Spain.

523

: 00:27:30

She, she was Western, but had studied

extensively and, , helped me so much.

524

: 00:27:36

Incredible.

525

: 00:27:37

, but since then I haven't found

a good one, so I'll have to see

526

: 00:27:40

if maybe, maybe your acupuncture

has a recommendation in Austin.

527

: 00:27:44

Tali: I can always text

him and he'll let me know.

528

: 00:27:47

Andi: That would be great.

529

: 00:27:49

Tali: So what other, , alternative

health things have you explored

530

: 00:27:53

that we can chat about?

531

: 00:27:54

I'm always curious.

532

: 00:27:56

Andi: Oh, um,

533

: 00:28:00

I think one of the biggest ones,

which is not specifically physical

534

: 00:28:04

health, but it's like emotional health

coming back into the body and score.

535

: 00:28:08

And that's actually such

an important factor.

536

: 00:28:11

I think there's a whole range of different

things I've worked with there in terms

537

: 00:28:14

of kind of psychedelics and I don't know

if you know Aho, he's this relatively

538

: 00:28:20

controversial Indian spiritual leader.

539

: 00:28:23

He was around in the nineties.

540

: 00:28:25

People might know him from the

documentary world, world Country on

541

: 00:28:27

Netflix, which is, uh, it's crazy.

542

: 00:28:31

The story.

543

: 00:28:31

At the same time, usher

developed a really profound.

544

: 00:28:35

set of teachings

around, , really embodied.

545

: 00:28:39

So if we think about all of this trauma

that's trapped in the body and anger

546

: 00:28:44

and hatred and you can see it right

when people are really hunched up and

547

: 00:28:47

they're holding everything in and like.

548

: 00:28:49

So he developed this system of movement.

549

: 00:28:51

So one aspect of dynamic meditation,

when you're like jumping up and down,

550

: 00:28:55

some of it is like you're screaming it,

like you're literally letting out all of

551

: 00:28:59

that anger that you've never been able

to let out before that's trapped in your

552

: 00:29:03

body and causing illness and disease.

553

: 00:29:04

And you get this opportunity to just

like, let it out and go for it, you know?

554

: 00:29:09

Um, and I, I did a retreat at an

Asha Ashram in Greece, actually, a

555

: 00:29:16

couple of years ago, which was a 10

day retreat and go through a lot of

556

: 00:29:20

sharing as well as movement practices.

557

: 00:29:23

So Kundalini meditation when you're

moving and shaking and all of these

558

: 00:29:26

ways to shift energy and shift physical

kind of things through the body.

559

: 00:29:31

, that I actually need to get back into it.

560

: 00:29:33

I haven't been doing

the practice recently.

561

: 00:29:36

, So that's something I think

is really, really powerful.

562

: 00:29:39

,

Tali: And you mentioned that you also do lunar syching and

563

: 00:29:43

Andi: yes, , I was actually very excited.

564

: 00:29:46

This month because I noticed, , my cycle

came on the new moon, which is kind of,

565

: 00:29:53

and then I noticed it was exactly 28 days.

566

: 00:29:55

So previous month was the new moon and

that's a while since I've been totally

567

: 00:29:59

synced like that, which is really nice.

568

: 00:30:02

, so there's, and you can think about

it both from an evolutionary biology

569

: 00:30:05

perspective as to why that might make

sense, but also from a kind of spiritual

570

: 00:30:09

perspective, , and women just really

being these very cyclical beings and.

571

: 00:30:13

These beautiful cycles we go through,

and it's very much linked to the

572

: 00:30:16

moon and the moon, , if we think

about the spiritual perspective, the

573

: 00:30:19

moon representing the feminine, the

sun representing the masculine, and

574

: 00:30:22

that's why we sync with the moon.

575

: 00:30:25

Tali: so was there something particular

you needed to do in order to sych?

576

: 00:30:29

Andi: So I didn't, , you can do

it intentionally from what.

577

: 00:30:35

So really setting the intention.

578

: 00:30:36

I think also being, I think if you're

generally in a good place emotionally

579

: 00:30:41

and balanced, that really helps.

580

: 00:30:43

That's really important.

581

: 00:30:45

, obviously going outside, really

being in touch with the moon.

582

: 00:30:48

So knowing when the new moon is going

outside, if you can experiencing the

583

: 00:30:52

darkness, , on those nights and when the

full moon is out, really experiencing and.

584

: 00:30:57

Making sure your body is,

, experiencing that the cycles as well.

585

: 00:31:01

, and then really setting that

intention, , for it to happen.

586

: 00:31:04

, and you can sync with.

587

: 00:31:06

The full moon as well.

588

: 00:31:08

So that's considered like the

priestess energy in some lineages.

589

: 00:31:12

So, , the priestesses, this

might be a bit graphic for some,

590

: 00:31:15

but, , would bleed on the full moon.

591

: 00:31:18

, and I know you have mostly women

listeners, so hopefully, , we

592

: 00:31:21

all are used to this.

593

: 00:31:22

, and so that's also a, , a beautiful

thing, , that maybe if you have more of

594

: 00:31:26

that priestess energy, you may want to set

the intention to sync with the full moon.

595

: 00:31:30

Tali: Okay, I'm gonna try that Cuz I heard

about lunar syching and I knew that was

596

: 00:31:37

a good thing, but I didn't know how to

do it specifically so I never I never pay

597

: 00:31:43

attention unless I was driving on an open

road and It happens to be a full moon and

598

: 00:31:48

I'll say oh my gosh, it's so beautiful

But then the next day I don't remember

599

: 00:31:52

what Lunar phase we're in, so it's

just not something I pay attention to.

600

: 00:31:56

It sounds like if I paid attention and

I set an intention , to sync up, that's

601

: 00:32:02

something that's more or less natural.

602

: 00:32:04

Andi: yeah, and there is a lot

of, , rituals you can do around the

603

: 00:32:08

new moon, which are really beautiful.

604

: 00:32:10

So that's a really beautiful time.

605

: 00:32:12

It's the feminine time.

606

: 00:32:13

So if we think about masculine is,

is outwards is active, is bright

607

: 00:32:18

is, , There's many other things, but

in this particular context, where

608

: 00:32:21

is the feminine is the darkness.

609

: 00:32:22

It's the inward.

610

: 00:32:24

It's the kind of gentle receiving energy.

611

: 00:32:27

And so that's the time of the new moon

when we go inward and the full moon.

612

: 00:32:30

It's like, it's bright.

613

: 00:32:31

It's sunny.

614

: 00:32:31

That's why you have the full moon parties.

615

: 00:32:34

You go out and party.

616

: 00:32:35

, that's also when you're most fertile,

so it's not a coincidence that you would

617

: 00:32:39

probably go to full moon parties at the

time you're most fertile, meet a mate

618

: 00:32:43

and have a child, , and so that the

new moon is more about going inwards.

619

: 00:32:48

So what's been going and that's

why also when we bleed, , we also

620

: 00:32:51

have the emotion come up so it's

this time of really going into the

621

: 00:32:55

emotional side into the feminine side.

622

: 00:32:57

Understanding listening to ourselves.

623

: 00:32:59

We can set intentions around what we

want to release from the previous cycle.

624

: 00:33:03

What we want to welcome

into the next cycle.

625

: 00:33:05

, so lots of like journaling meditation,

, any sort of feminine practices around

626

: 00:33:10

the new moon is a really beautiful

way to acknowledge that as well.

627

: 00:33:14

Tali: That is so cool.

628

: 00:33:17

Okay, we have a few minutes left.

629

: 00:33:20

, what Bitcoin?

630

: 00:33:24

, Andi: I think, think about what you're

really passionate about in the world.

631

: 00:33:29

I think we as women.

632

: 00:33:31

, Connect to Bitcoin less like the

guys might be like, Oh my God,

633

: 00:33:35

this is such cool technology.

634

: 00:33:36

And I'm like, I don't really care

what, like I really care about is.

635

: 00:33:41

I guess helping other people and

making the world a better place.

636

: 00:33:45

And that's where I really

realized Bitcoin, , really

637

: 00:33:48

fit in so much with that.

638

: 00:33:51

, and so I think maybe for women

and it's obviously, we all have

639

: 00:33:56

feminine and masculine inside us.

640

: 00:33:57

I'm not saying it's only women.

641

: 00:33:58

Lots of men care about people as well.

642

: 00:34:01

Lots of women are technical.

643

: 00:34:02

I'm certainly very technical.

644

: 00:34:03

So I just want to preface that.

645

: 00:34:04

But, I think women do often

care a lot about other people

646

: 00:34:08

and want to make a difference.

647

: 00:34:09

And so really understanding maybe how

Bitcoin and sound money really maybe fits

648

: 00:34:15

in with things you're passionate about.

649

: 00:34:17

, could be a way as well.

650

: 00:34:18

And I love this podcast of listening

to other women's stories as well.

651

: 00:34:22

And you can let the boys go talk

about the technical, I mean, yeah, I

652

: 00:34:25

can go do the code and there's some

amazing female coders, so don't get

653

: 00:34:29

me wrong, like Lisa is like amazing.

654

: 00:34:32

, so it's, it's not a blanket rule, but

655

: 00:34:34

Tali: Yeah, , we're grossly

generalizing here because like you

656

: 00:34:37

said, some women have, more masculine

tendencies and of course men have more

657

: 00:34:42

feminine tendencies and that's fine.

658

: 00:34:45

It's just that we do in

general think a certain way.

659

: 00:34:49

For example, my husband, when

he starts talking about Bitcoin.

660

: 00:34:52

necessarily he brings in politics

and he gets very worked up and

661

: 00:34:56

upset about all the wrongs that

have happened and all that stuff.

662

: 00:35:00

And like you said, I care about

how impacts me personally and how it

663

: 00:35:05

makes a difference for people's lives

more just on a personal experience

664

: 00:35:09

level and less of a systemic.

665

: 00:35:11

And, you know, let's talk politics.

666

: 00:35:14

Let's talk big picture stuff.

667

: 00:35:16

I get more personal.

668

: 00:35:18

, I'm so happy to have

gotten to know you better.

669

: 00:35:21

And , the fact that we can talk

women to women about topics

670

: 00:35:25

, that , we all experience and share.

671

: 00:35:27

I think that's so important, that we can

have this open space to speak freely.

672

: 00:35:32

I don't think we would be so comfortable

talking about lunar syching if there were

673

: 00:35:37

Andi: yeah.

674

: 00:35:38

Tali: men in this space, but it's

really relevant, you know, , and

675

: 00:35:43

people, people like to know.

676

: 00:35:46

Thanks for joining us today . If the

discussion with our guests resonated

677

: 00:35:50

with you and you would like to dive

deeper into the world of Bitcoin,

678

: 00:35:54

don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

679

: 00:35:58

The meetup link is in the show notes.

680

: 00:36:00

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

681

: 00:36:04

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

682

: 00:36:09

Until next time, bye!